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Anti-Aliasing/Anisotropic Filtering not working properly


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#76 frihyland

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:57 AM

For most machines MSAA x4 PP with SSAA x2 from driver is gonna be the sweet spot of performance/quality. On a wimpy machine just the MSAA x2 PP will do, and an uber machine maybe just go SSAA 4x4 and SGSSAA x8 driver or something ludicrous like that. Then you got all the in between combinations.
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#77 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:00 AM

I did some testing and TrSSAA/SGSSAA barely gives me a performance difference hit all. something else must be bottlenecking my system. (I'd prefer the fps to be >83 with my vsync @ 83Hz) tested outdoors right out of Helgen cave, with about 350+ mods. 4X MSAA, SSAO=Quality, no TrSSAA/SGSSAA = 63 FPS 4X MSAA, SSAO=Quality, 2x TrSSAA             = 62 FPS 4X MSAA, SSAO=Quality, 4x TrSSAA             = 58 FPS 4X MSAA, SSAO=Quality, 2x SGSSAA            = 58 FPS 4X MSAA, SSAO=Quality, 4x SGSSAA            = 58 FPS 4X MSAA, SSAO=Quality, 8x SGSSAA            = 59 FPS very strange, most of this is within the margin for error. also this was without ENB, my ENB config gives about a 2-3 drop in fps. also, strangely enough FORCING 4x MSAA in Nvidia Inspector showed a GAIN of about 4-5 fps. but forcing it with it turned off in skyrim's .ini disabled MSAA entirely. video memory usage was consistent across the board between 1675MB and 1699MB with unoptomized textures, I couldn't get a very accurate reading between save reloads. Edit: tested with all textures resized to 1024, mem usage was around 1100 and fps was the same. Edit2: well it's probably not a CPU bottleneck, I tested my CPU at 5GHz and only gained about 2-3 fps on average. Edit3: both my GPU's seem to sit around 95%+ GPU usage, so i guess I've just somehow hit the maximum they can do. but it's still odd that TrSSAA and SGSSAA doesn't effect performance much - it hints at some kind of bottleneck elsewhere.
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#78 stoppingby4now

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

they also talk here about SGSSAA blurring skyrim without specifically forcing a compatibility flag and MSAA in Nvidia Inspector instead of in-game, but I haven't noticed that.

That is old information. I have to suspect that the person has not updated their drivers, because the latest couple of releases have compatibility bits that work great with SGSSAA for Skyrim with no blurring. If they are at the latest, they have something else that is interfering, possibly even using older compatibility bits.

also, FXAA reduces the aliasing on specular highlights and stuff too, but of course at the cost of blurring. SMAA didn't seem to do as good a job but it had next to zero blurring.

SGSSAA reduces all of that as well. The problem with FXAA is that when you throw textures at it with very fine detail, the colors get blended a lot more, which is the biggest cause of the blurring. It's equivalent to using a soft edged blur tool in a paint program. One person in the link you posted says it also gets rid of texture shimmering, which is false. I suspect they don't even know what texture shimmering is.

I also read somewhere that SGSSAA increases VRAM uses since it has to supersample the entire scene, so it could increase stuttering.

It will increase VRAM. It's not about increasing the image size to X2 or X4 etc., but rather creating additional buffers for a scene, taking a sample from each, and merging the results.

On another note, I'm considering getting a pair or triple 4GB 670's since the 690 I bought was apparently stolen. (long story, but I got a refund from eBay and have to send the card back to EVGA). 2GB per GPU is looking less and less appealing the more mods I add :-/

I haven't done a full test recently with everything installed, but the last numbers I recall were peaking just under 1900MB of VRAM usage (using a 3GB card).
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#79 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:24 PM

Ahh, interesting. I had suspected the compatibility flag was obsolete. I didn't see any VRAM increase with SGSSAA, even at 8x, which is very odd... but there is a difference between the amount of VRAM your card *actually* needs to render a scene, and the amount it uses anyways just because it's available. from what I understand, they will use extra as sort of a cache but can often get away with less. the only way to really tell is to see at what point it stutters at, but it's hard to tell since skyrm seems to stutter anyways But it does worry me seeing my VRAM at 1990MB-2030MB after walking around skyrim for awhile.
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#80 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:07 AM

btw, @Torminator, regarding anisotropic filtering:

are you using DDSopt? There's some staggering differences with certain textures that aren't done properly, and is only noticeable from afar. the post here shows before/after shots. the second one with the streets could be mistaken for lack of anisotropic filtering.
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#81 torminater

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:44 AM

i haven't used ddsopt on any textures during this testing phase but usually i do. so no, unfortunately that's not the problem.
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#82 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:21 PM

hmm, regarding TrSSAA & SGSSAA performance - I think I found the cause of my bottleneck, I overloaded papyrus. (including occasional sound skips and stuttering). I get perfect fps with just the texture mods and no .esp's (though some are in .bsa format too). If I disable vsync, then I see a difference of TrSSAA and SGSSAA in the higher fps numbers but with my esp's the fps gets capped lower. Edit: or maybe not... looks like it was just minor differences in locations of the clean save vs dirty save. that and the fps seems to "settle" down a bit after fully loading an area
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#83 torminater

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:42 AM

You Sure that your settings are Set to Maximum Performance?
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#84 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:49 AM

"Maximum Performance"? in nvidia inspector? yes, and I even went so far as to force consistent clocks so my GPU's are always at 1.16GHz/6.95GHz core/mem. but the fps still jumps around a lot between 60-83 w/ vsync
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#85 torminater

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:59 AM

maybe a vanilla papyrus scripting bottleneck?
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#86 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:53 AM

apparently not, because on vanilla + bethesda hi-res I get perfect 83fps vsync. but with my mods, it's all stuttery 60-75 in some areas. I guess I'll have to hunt down which mods are causing this. I've got everything set up in Mod Organizer so it shouldn't be too hard. guess this thread is really getting off-topic now, sorry lol, but thanks for the suggestions.   anyway, here's a list of my plugins in case anyone has an idea of a resource hog here. I'm enabling/disabling stuff to see, but it may end up being a texture mod afterall (not listed below)

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#87 torminater

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:54 AM

well, just thinking for a sec, that if your problem is a texture mod, maybe it's because a really really big amount of data has to be processed and sent from your cpu and gpu and back and forth and so on. this enormous data traffic might cause stutters. and skyrim is a 32bit application with LAA-awareness but neverless it's not going to split split threads on all of your cores evenly so that there's not one core that gets overloaded. maybe you run perfmon on TESV.exe to see whether one of your cores is being overburdened. Not sure how you can fix that, though. But hey I'm only guessing. also, nvrmind the off-topic. if something interesting about skyrim glitches/bugs/problems is to be discussed then all of my threads are open for it :)
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#88 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:56 AM

yeah I will start running perf mon again, and I'll turn off papyrus debugging. i'm sure debug isn't good for performance either. as far as CPU usage went, i saw about 3 of my cores being used at 90%+ from windows performance monitor. I'll have to compare to a vanilla install
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#89 torminater

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

yup. looks like bad multi-core-management to me... but that's how skyrim is. directly ported from xbox to pc and ages later finished with optimizations if at all.
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#90 LeetMiniWheat

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:32 AM

maybe some .ini tweaks would help spread the load with more threads. but I dunno if it's a CPU issue, I only got 3-5 more fps with my CPU @ 5.0GHz
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