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Interactive Clutter (by fireundubh)

mod dawnguard hearthfire dragonborn

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#16 generalmx

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:14 AM

The FPS is still capped to 60FPS in the STEP solution which doesn't have the vanilla vsync enabled. This is done through ENBoost for best performance in the realm of smoothness during gameplay. At least, that's the low-down of it. There was a great deal of testing done before this solution as implemented. Thus far, no ill effects have been reported. I'd be interested if your mod still worked the same with this solution over the vanilla vsync.

Hmm, while looking for confirmation of this, I actually found ENB saying that "EnableVSync", when set to true, just honours the game's setting: https://enbseries.en...opic.php?t=2834 , so I'm not sure if that's still true or why he'd say that if that's not actually the case.

 

I was curious what "iPresentInterval" stands for and was wondering if ENB explained it; now I realize it's probably referring to "PresentationInterval" in D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS: https://msdn.microso...8(v=vs.85).aspx ...which makes me wonder if we can actually set "iPresentInterval" to different values, such as "2" for every 2nd V-BLANK (or perhaps "2" for "D3DPRESENT_LINEAR_CONTENT").


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#17 fireundubh

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:10 AM

I was curious what "iPresentInterval" stands for and was wondering if ENB explained it; now I realize it's probably referring to "PresentationInterval" in D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS: https://msdn.microso...8(v=vs.85).aspx ...which makes me wonder if we can actually set "iPresentInterval" to different values, such as "2" for every 2nd V-BLANK (or perhaps "2" for "D3DPRESENT_LINEAR_CONTENT").

Try it, but I bet it's just a binary bit flag.

Edited by fireundubh, 13 August 2014 - 04:10 AM.

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#18 Aiyen

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:42 AM

Fireundubh: Yeah my point was not so much that it was a handcart.. more the fact that when you want to pick up something else you end up with situations where you pick up something else. In this particular case then everything in the handcart would drop down and scatter all over the place... in the odd case also killing you due to railgun lettuce heads.. but that can happen! :) 

 

 

As for vsync on or off.. it does not really matter. The more objects that are physics interactable the higher the case for issues.. the table with all the things on is a great example. Even if nobody is moving ANYTHING you can find objects that slightly vibrate, etc since the objects when they first spawned... had a slight height over the mesh. 

 

Also my favorite when using realistic force is that a mammoth steps on a mudcrap and gets thrown into the stratosphere.... always look hilarious. These sorts of issues can just happen due to weird collisions between meshes.. and the physics going "divide by zero ... BOOM" 

 

Another example is when you have a dead corpse and run into it and damage/kill yourself. Again just because... physics! Guess the overall solution to that would be to edit the objects so they did not have collision boxes but that would probably remove even more from realism.. and most likely make it difficult for them to stay anywhere. 


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#19 fireundubh

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 08:30 AM

As for vsync on or off.. it does not really matter. The more objects that are physics interactable the higher the case for issues..

I had an issue where objects would fly all over the place when I walked into a cell. I could stand still next to a wall with nothing nearby and hear a sword clanging against the wall as though I was kicking it. I quit the game and restarted. Same problem. Exited again. Guess what? iPresentInterval was 0. I set iPresentInterval to 1 and reloaded. No problem. "Too many physics-enabled meshes" isn't a problem, given the fact that nearly every object in the game, including actors, has a physics-enabled mesh. There's nothing wrong with using third-party graphics hacks or modifying the .ini settings, but you should know when a problem is your doing and not some poor mod whose meshes are the same physics-enabled meshes that have always been in the game. I've been using More Interactive Items without incident since it went up on the Nexus in 2011. PS. I rewrote my reply to be less hostile but I think it still sounds hostile. Sorry.

Edited by fireundubh, 13 August 2014 - 08:31 AM.

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#20 Aiyen

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 09:22 AM

Oh I did not take you as hostile at all. It is a nice little debate imo! :) 

 

But yeah the problem you seem to describe is the one where you walk in to a room and you got poltergeist action all over.. that will be solved with vsync. 

 

The issues I am talking about is just the small things that simply happen because of physics... such as the table with everything jittering all over. Just happens because for some reason the velocity vectors cannot just be 0 across the board.  An annoying thing about this is that all the extra calculations because of this actually cost performance! However this happens in just about any game that have physics...infinitely bouncing objects that is. 

 

But anyways yes most objects have physics enabled.. but they are also static objects which means that collision will never have any influence on them.. they are essentially just wall extensions put there to break up the monotomy of the level. 

 

Once they get altered to be moveable etc then you get all these issues that can happen... they do not have to happen, but they can. And the more objects that collide etc. the more issues you are going to get. And if you have vsync off then even more due to how the physics calculations are frame dependent. 

 

Mass is especially weird with collisions.. like the case with the mammoth being sent flying. (In fact when I need a good giggle I normally just do the spawn 20 mammoth and see them go flying since something about their mesh just sends them flying ending up in trees and what not.)

https://www.dropbox....mothscanfly.jpg

 

Not the best example but they fly, and also as a bonus point sent the dragon corpse flying all over!

 

 

However all that aside (I actually enjoy the odd physics freakout.. it is mostly just hilarious) then my main issue with the mod was that since all the clutter items serve no purpose then they just got annoying after a while. 

If in combination with frostfall you could chop a chart into firewood, and smelt down pots n pans etc. then they would have a purpose and perhaps not be as annoying... but moving them around just for the heck of it... well then I personally just prefer statics... less issues overall, and more smooth gameplay! 

 

Hope that all came out in a non hostile manner! :) 


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#21 fireundubh

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:05 PM

However all that aside (I actually enjoy the odd physics freakout.. it is mostly just hilarious) then my main issue with the mod was that since all the clutter items serve no purpose then they just got annoying after a while. If in combination with frostfall you could chop a chart into firewood, and smelt down pots n pans etc. then they would have a purpose and perhaps not be as annoying... but moving them around just for the heck of it... well then I personally just prefer statics... less issues overall, and more smooth gameplay!    Hope that all came out in a non hostile manner! :)

Interactive Clutter will have breakdown recipes. There are already scrimshaw recipes for Hunterborn. If you use AutoHarvest in a cave filled with bones, you'll have so many bones to make Bits of Bone. I think the Detached Eyeball in hagraven lairs will also produce a random eye ingredient from a leveled list, but it probably doesn't work.
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#22 redirishlord

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

You had me at "Detached Eyeball" ("it's not the taste, it's the consistency" oh, just threw up in my mouth a little).

 

I was thinking along the Hunterborn lines myself (since you already included a patch) and cave clutter specifically. I just used AS-LAL to begin the game as Forsworn and being able to create various bone weapons earlier rather than later (to hunt more animals and create more bone gear, rinse repeat) seemed very appealing. I've moved past early beginnings in my current playthrough, but I just cleared at Orphan Rock so I can check out if that Detached Eyeball will also produce a random eye ingredient from a leveled list tonight.


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#23 fireundubh

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:16 PM

Your feedback on v0.2 recipes is needed. Please see the recipes spreadsheet and let me know what should be changed. Interactive Clutter (Ultimate) - Constructible Objects
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#24 Shadriss

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:32 PM

Maybe that could be the issue with that cart thing floating about somebody mentioned.

Negative on this, Dub. From what I've been able to gather, that  particular issue has to do with character physics in particular. IA v7 added support for Breast and Butt bouncing enabled body replacers, and that altered the gravity settings (I'm just repeating stuff from the IA Postings on Nexus, so I may be getting this slightly wrong). As a result, HAVOK didn't know how to handle collisions between NPCs and the cart, resulting in episodes like Red's 'Mammoths can fly' scenario.

 

On subject, I have to kind of go in with Tech on this one - on the surface, it seems like a great idea for realism and the like, but the physics side of it (combined with the picking up a cart when all I wanted was a head of cabbage issue) makes this one an easy mod to pass on. No offense to you or your work - I still can't make head or tail of the CK, so you are still light years beyond my ability.


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#25 fireundubh

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:43 PM

On subject, I have to kind of go in with Tech on this one - on the surface, it seems like a great idea for realism and the like, but the physics side of it (combined with the picking up a cart when all I wanted was a head of cabbage issue) makes this one an easy mod to pass on. No offense to you or your work - I still can't make head or tail of the CK, so you are still light years beyond my ability.

The "physics problem" is basically ********. Sorry. More physics-enabled objects doesn't mean worse physics overall. It might mean more opportunities for physics problems, but so does Immersive Armors, Immersive Weapons, Immersive Patrols, Populated Cities, anything that adds physics-enabled meshes to the world. If you're going to blame someone, blame Bethesda; that is, if those problems even exist outside screwing with vsync, using third-party hacks, or not using SMIM meshes. As for picking up a cart instead of a cabbage, maybe try aiming first.
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#26 redirishlord

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:48 PM

Correction: Aiyen descended from Aetherius to bring the gift of flight to mortal mammoths.

 

Excellent find on the "cart flipping issue", note to self: do not install hdt physics until after Helgen intro.

 

Re- crafting recipes;

Human Remains (various) to bone meal: by Sithis that's genius, I can be my own "cleaner".

Elk Horn, Deer Skull: perhaps allow conversion to ingredient: large / small antlers instead of bone meal?

... if that's how moon sugar is made consider me rehabilitated ...

otherwise: brilliant!

 

Re- "cart grabbing issue" saves me chopping firewood, just grab the cabbage first, cart after.


Edited by redirishlord, 13 August 2014 - 06:49 PM.

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#27 DoubleYou

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:59 PM

This whole discussion sometimes is why I wish there was a mod that had an MCM menu enabling you to disable and enable different kinds of clutter ability to pick up or not. Perhaps that's what this mod needs. An MCM menu to configure what can be picked up.

#28 fireundubh

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:02 PM

Human Remains (various) to bone meal: by Sithis that's genius, I can be my own "cleaner". Elk Horn, Deer Skull: perhaps allow conversion to ingredient: large / small antlers instead of bone meal? ... if that's how moon sugar is made consider me rehabilitated ... otherwise: brilliant!

Okay, I changed the outputs of: - Deer Skull to Small Antlers - Horned Deer Skull to Large Antlers - Detached Eyeball to Eye of Sabre Cat  

This whole discussion sometimes is why I wish there was a mod that had an MCM menu enabling you to disable and enable different kinds of clutter ability to pick up or not. Perhaps that's what this mod needs. An MCM menu to configure what can be picked up.

Only way I see that working is if a) someone else wrote the MCM menu because f that and b) I replaced MSTT references with ACTIvators. The activators would have a script that basically says:
event on activate	if this activator's associated object is enabled in the MCM menu		loot associated object;end event;event on load	if this activator's associated object is disabled in the MCM menu		block activation;end event;
But then we'd get back to the problem of those objects not being able to be grabbed or moved around.

Edited by fireundubh, 13 August 2014 - 07:13 PM.

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#29 redirishlord

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

Oustanding my friend! and I'll ground the bones from my DB contracts to make my bread, I mean bone meal.

Really glad you posted on Immersive Clutter & Master of Disguise, both coincidentally compliment my current character quite nicely.

I'll be restarting my Companion/Stormcloak soon, so MoD should provide exciting depth there as well, and he's sure to be landed gentry so you can never have too many iron ingots for home improvement projects.

 

Re- configuring what you pick up, I'm thinking you're best served using the primary safety from your firearm. That's your index finger btw (& yes, I am a smart ass, but I mean well).

:;):


Edited by redirishlord, 13 August 2014 - 07:14 PM.

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#30 Aiyen

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:12 PM

Physics.... it works! Just not in Skyrim! :D 

 

Anyways jokes aside!

Then yeah adding more objects does not make the physics worse...up to a point. More modern games then skyrim still have issues with physics causing all sorts of issues.. from harmless funny bugs, to gamebreaking performance crashing issues. (Who would have thought that eternally bouncing ball was the cause of all those issues!) 

However just like SMIM and SFO and god knows how many other mods that add more (detailed) models to the game then it all adds up... eventually the engine just have to say stop! So saying that physics problems are "********" is perhaps a bit over the top since all of our installs are different. Ofc any mod on its own in the vanilla game is most likely not going to be the proverbial drop.... until later! 

 

 

Anyways all of that aside then on to trying to make this more awesome! 

 

Looking over your list then it seems to me that the amount of firewood is rather... excessive.. as I recall then firewood if you harvest it is what 4 pieces at most ? and it has a weight of what 4 per piece? (sorry if I am outdated on this!) 

 

But it just strikes me as one thing that perhaps should be toned down a little bit! In general since there is so MUCH clutter then what you can get from it should also be scaled down in comparison. Perhaps even add a feature of failing to get anything from an item. 


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