Guided Tables/Lists

[hishutup]

First, I am not 100% sure this is the correct location.

Take a look at this first:

 

     Roads of Cyrodiil

• Author: Arthmoor - Ukrr - mariedanj
• Version: 1.0
• Installation: Download: Roads of Cyrodiil Patches

Choose the most appropriate patches for you Load Order.

     UL (Unique Landscapes)

          Check00 ROC +UL Imperial Isle

          Check00 ROC +UL Skingrad Outskirts

 

     Let the People Drink

          Check00 ROC +Let the People Drink

 

     UL + Let the people drink

          Uncheck00 ROC +UL Imperial Isle and 00 ROC +Let the People Drink

        Check00 ROC +UL Imperial Isle +Let the People Drink

• Notes: (if needed)

<short description>

 

Okay, as you see for the patches even for two different mods telling/showing the user the correct patch is going to be tricky for when there is more patches.
Is there a way to have a guided list. For example, when a user is at that location hey/she will see selectable boxes. So that when the user select both UL + Let the people drink that only that only:
Check00 ROC +UL Imperial Isle +Let the People Drink
shows up. This isn't a big deal with two but when there are many more it'll become cluttered.

Is there a way to apply logic to text to hide/unhide when needed?
Is it a feature that could be added or be too difficult?

Is there a way to add logic elements to text?

 

I'll mock up something to visually explain it later.

 

The best guided list I can think of is Newegg.com

Where you can pick categories and then individual sub categories. Then give a list of all the things that match.

 

 

If this is completely impossible or isn't worth the hassle then i'll look into a new format.

Edited September 10, 2014 by hishutup

[DoubleYou]

So, you want it so if I check one thing, something shows, and if I check another thing but not the first thing, something shows, but if I check both things, something entirely different shows?

 

Not entirely sure if that is possible or not. I think the problem is your format can easily become daunting to understand. This is why I'm working on this: https://wiki.step-project.com/Template:TestModEntry (please do not use)

[hishutup]

for that example yes... each selection will unhide one result and the others are hidden.

Down the road I am positive that selection the correct group of patches is going to be a pain to explain.

 

 

Since, the Guide loaded with choices there there are going to be many different combinations of Load Orders

I'm hoping with the proper bash tags, the need for patches will be greatly reduced compared to skyrim...

[stoppingby4now]

I'm not sure I entirely understand as I haven't looked at this closer. If you are referring to the generated page, there currently isn't a mechanism for allowing a user to click certain things and have others show based on logic. MW does not provide that sort of functionality, and would certainly require an extension to be able to handle that.

 

If, however, you are referring to the creation of the page via Semantic forms, there are methods to be able to allow certain fields to show/hide based on other selections. It can get very messy very fast though, and isn't easily done when the number of choices start becoming astronomical. You are essentially limited to what can be queried on things like a semantic property, categories, specific pages, etc.

[hishutup]

Ah, yes, I did have two different things... 

A generated page and a Semantic form..

Since, the generated page is not possible then how would I implement semantic forms... I was taking a look at it and I was clueless on how to do simple logic...

Anyone can write c/cpp logic but I have no idea how to do basic logic using semantic forms...

 

For the example above, is there someone that knows it well enough to help me understand it?

Edited September 15, 2014 by hishutup

[stoppingby4now]

I'm only seeing a description about the user experience. Can you describe more about how you want the form to handle choices? Ideally with some examples. The intended use will ultimately determine if it will be feasible or not.

[hishutup]

Ok... Hmm... Half-a**ed coding from HS...

The results is what gets displayed which could be a table, box or whatever

 

There are two Boolean boxes

* UL (Unique Landscapes) [A]

* Let the People Drink

 

if(A == true && B == false){

          Check 00 ROC +UL Imperial Isle

          Check 00 ROC +UL Skingrad Outskirts

}

if(B == true && A == false){

          Check 00 ROC +Let the People Drink

}

if(A == true && B == true){

        Check 00 ROC +UL Imperial Isle +Let the People Drink

          Check 00 ROC +UL Skingrad Outskirts

}

 

Hope this helps, this is the simplest example I can think of

 

EDIT: Oops fixed a problem with the if statements

Edited September 15, 2014 by hishutup

[stoppingby4now]

Ok, I see. It would be possible to use a Boolean semantic property for this, which is what a checkbox would represent. You can also only make a tie to a single field, so you're example of an AND wouldn't work, but I don't think that will be a problem. Unless you the expected result of the AND would differ from what each selection individually would produce.

 

To make this generic, would likely also require the ability to add selection choices within the form, along with result that should be displayed.

 

But given all of this, I'm not sure what making all of this semantically would buy you, since this would be managed purely within the form. The only way at present that I see this making sense is if all the options are maintained as data associated with a mod, such that associating mod would result in the choices being available within the form.

 

So I guess I need to understand, is this intended for use with packs?

[hishutup]

Sorry but this is something that I find hard to answer...

In short, I am exploring different ideas to present complex information is an easy to read fashion with still providing confidence to a user. This becomes difficult with complex information because with so many decisions, its easy to become overwhelmed.

 

 

Extended answer:

I figured after the guide continues and because of the number of choices that could be made, I can't be certain of a users LO... I figured I could type out all the options and then a user can select as they go which mods they had used thus giving the correct patches without presenting a user with unneeded install instructions.

 

The example that I had presented you with is quite simple and easy to read.

I am uncertain of what the future plans for the guide are going to be.

 

the "packs" are going to be included in the guide similar to how FCOM is done. Please excuse the ugly colors, Soire(Red) has been absent for almost a week and I need more input for design decisions.

https://wiki.step-project.com/User:Hishutup/OblivionGuide#Major_Overhauls

 

As for the example, I am unsure if a user is going to install A, B or both... because they are both in a sort of Extended "pack"

 

I dislike the term "pack" because they are part of the guide and are going to be in the correct order... 

 

 

 

I hope this answers your question, in one way or another...

[stoppingby4now]

Is this what you were using the collapsible content for? To initially hide the extended text, but allow the user to show it if needed?

 

Based on what you just said though, there isn't a way to control asset the level you are seeking. The mechanisms that are available are very simplistic and don't provide logic mechanisms that you would require.

[hishutup]

The whole point to collapsable tables is to hide excess information like which UI system to use...

If both were there without being collapsed then it becomes confusing to read because there would be multiple mods performing the same objective

 

What this applied logic would do is to remove the user from reading text that has logic. In this case UL + LtPD, even though this is an incredible simple one. Down the line it may get more difficult.

 

I know you don't allow JavaScript for good reason but is it possible to add a script as 'trusted' so that it is usable on pages or is that even a bad idea... Probably is

[DoubleYou]

It seems to me you are trying to turn two different guides into one.

[hishutup]

It's modular, so yes its several guides in one, making it overly complicated...

If it was only one setup it would be fairly easy but its not because that would be boring.

Look though it, even though its a complete mess...

I've been burnt out for a few days because I'm not happy with some parts and the person I was working with disappeared the past week

Edited September 15, 2014 by hishutup

[stoppingby4now]

What you are trying do isn't readily possible. There may be ways to get close, but it will surely break when options become complex, or rather the possible combinations and expected results doesn't have a 1-1 relationship.

 

In regards to adding JavaScript and making it trusted, that certainly can be done, however it needs to be applicable at large as well. We don't want to allow a process of having a bunch of requests for JavaScript additions that only apply to a specific page, or very small corner of the wiki, as the benefit is small as the amount scripts that need to be loaded by the browser increase.

 

There is also the issue of tweaking JavaScript to be usable in MW since they lockdown it's use so nothing had global scope.

[hishutup]

When I was looking https://jqueryui.com/ seems to have buttons, toggles, show/hide stuff.

If I remember correctly the collapsed tables use jQuery

 

As for applying logic in between jQuery things, I have no idea, I guess I'll take a look around

 

Remember, I have little to no knowledge of server/web page coding and I am not even sure this is what if this will work on a user level...

I think it would be cool if the Guides were a little bit more interactive, rather than a list.

 

Anyhow, thanks for putting up with me.

[stoppingby4now]

I agree with you on the interactive part. At some point though, a wiki becomes less ideal. It wasn't designed to be dynamic, and in turn lacks the ability to have anything but the most basic logic. Nor do you want that in a wiki. Their power comes from caching pages to eliminate expensive database lookups.

 

JavaScript is really the only avenue at that point, allowing manipulation of displayed content with data that is delivered with the page.

 

I've felt this way awhile now, but it's almost time to think about an in-house solution, or specifically something that provides more power than a wiki for complex setups.