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Freezing near the entrance to Riverwood.


Best Answer keithinhanoi , 18 December 2014 - 06:08 PM

@TigerWolfe - If those two lines I mentioned in my previous are not in skse_steam_loader.log, then the heap block memory fix setting in your skse.ini wasn't read, plain and simple. Even your test with Memory Blocks Log confirms this.

 

So, I will go out on a limb and say that you have discovered your problem right there.

 

A majority of the times I've seen people claiming the SKSE implementation of Sheson's memory fix doesn't work either:

  • did not actually have skse.ini in the correct location,
  • had not updated to SKSE 1.7.1, or
  • had set Windows to hide file extensions, and accidentally saved skse.ini as skse.ini.txt (as Nozzer66 points out)

SKSE will look for the skse.ini file in ... Skyrim/Data/SKSE/

 

Alternatively, if SKSE's script files have been installed as a mod in Mod Organizer, the .ini can be kept in there, in a subfolder named SKSE, like this:

 

wjnui9W.png

 

I would suggest this method for storing the skse.ini because then you can edit it directly in MO - just click on the INI-files tab as seen in the above pic of the mod info window, and then choose skse.ini to edit right in that window.

 

Until you see those two lines in skse_steam_loader.log, and verified that block 1 can go over 256, there is honestly no use in looking at other reasons for the CTDs.

 

If your skse.ini is in the correct location but the heap size lines are still not appearing in skse_steam_loader.log let us know, and we can help troubleshoot why it's not working.

 

Good luck!

 

 

@Vulgar1 -

 

Regarding your iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes setting - with absolutely no personal offence meant towards you, that is a ridiculously high number, and although not necessarily CTD-inducing, will almost guaranteed lead to Papyrus stack dumping, which means at best you get massive script lag, and at worst lots of scripts won't run or finish - in other words, things won't work as intended or expected.

 

I have just posted about this and the myth about another supposed "magical" game-fixing .ini setting in the Correct Enblocal Settings thread, here. I highly recommend reading it.

 

(Post edited to add one more reason why the SKSE implementation of the memory patch may not work - thanks to Nozzer66 for the reminder!!)

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#16 GrantSP

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:51 AM

That ENB message isn't reliable. I run it on my laptop and says it is the Intel card not my nVidia yet the game clearly is using that one.
I've seen reports on the ENB forum that it is a known issue.
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#17 TigerWolfe

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:53 AM

So I had already removed Wet and Cold. Moved on to the Papyrus changes in Skyrim.ini  and CTD right as I pass the rocks where the wolves are usually at. 

 

Skyrim.ini

 

SkyrimPrefs.ini

 

ENBlocal.ini

 

My specs again are here.

 

It's midnight my time though and I've gotta hit the hay. Thanks for all the help so far folks. If nothing else I'm getting more familiar with using the various utilities. 

Hopefully in the AM when I wake up there will be a magical solution posted. 

 

ETA: saw the -forcesteamloader thing, tried it. Froze right at the gate to Riverwood. I'll be back tomorrow. Thanks again for the help everyone. 


Edited by TigerWolfe, 18 December 2014 - 02:00 AM.

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#18 Vulgar1

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:56 AM

Take a look at this it may help. https://www.nexusmod...im/mods/59810/?

If you use them make sure to change the graphics card in skyrimprefs.ini to yours.

And test some papyrus settings because it is script related.


Edited by Vulgar1, 18 December 2014 - 02:02 AM.

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#19 keithinhanoi

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 02:44 AM

That area along the road between the Standing Stones and Riverwood where the wolves are waiting to attack has always been notorious for causing CTDs

 

The main reason is that there is an intersection of 4 worldspace cells right in the middle of the road - in a couple of places, so your system could potentially be loading and unloading data for 3 cells in rapid succession, and it fills up the allocated heap memory, which then causes a CTD when TESV.exe tries to increase the heap allocation.

 

If you don't believe me, before walking down that road, open the console, and enter tb to toggle cell border display, and you will see a bright straight yellow dotted line wherever the edges of two cells meet. Then walk down the road and look for the meeting point of four cell corners. It should be actually in the road you are walking. Walk through there, and see if the CTD comes immediately or soon after.

 

Anyhow, until Sheson's "discovery" of this problem and his memory patch fix for it was released, I would CTD nearly every time going through that area, not always in the exact same spot , but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen.

 

After putting his fix in place, I've never crashed in that area again. In an earlier post, you confirmed you have the correct skse.ini setting to activate the SKSE team's implementation of the Sheson's fix:

 

 

That's all I have in my SKSE.ini

...but, have you verified beyond any doubt that

  1. The DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=768 setting in skse.ini has actually increases the heap memory allocation to 512MB, and
  2. 512MB allocated to heap allocation is actually enough?

The best way to find out on those two checks is

  1. look at the skse_steam_loader.log file, which is located in C:\Users\<YOUR_USER_NAME>\Documents\my games\skyrim\SKSE and check for two lines near the bottom of the log output:

    default heap = 512MB (effective 768MB if not preloading animations)
    scrap heap = 256MB
     
  2. if you see the lines in skse_steam_loader.log then download, install and use Sheson's Memory Blocks Log mod, which is a SKSE .dll based plugin to create a log of all changes to the heap memory size while Skyrim is running.

    Then, with the logging activated, load up your game and run through to Riverwood to cause the CTD. Then check your MO overwrite folder - Memory Blocks Log normally writes the log output to \Skyrim\Data\skse\plugins\MemoryBlocksLog.log, so MO catches that and sticks in the overwrite folder.

    Scroll down to the very bottom of the MemoryBlocksLog.log file to see what the final "Block1" heap memory sizes was just before the crash. That's the last number in the left column. If it was really close or equal to 512MB, then it means you need to bump up the allocation set in SKSE.ini, to something like 896 (which sets the effective size of the heap to 640MB).

    Leave the Memory Blocks Log on in case you run into more crashes, so you can check if you've hit maxed out on the heap allocation and need to raise it even further.

    Using Memory Blocks Log, I found out that I had to set my DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB= to 896 to stop CTDs, and then I later had to increase it to 1024 after installing some higher resolution texture replacer mods. When I raised DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB= to 1024, I had to then increase ScrapHeapSizeMB= to 512, or otherwise Skyrim would crash after starting it, at the main menu.

Personally I shy away from looking at my papyrus log for inspiration on why I've just had a CTD, because a majority of the time, it only sends me on a wild goose-chase. In other words, the Papryus log is not a Skyrim crash log. It's only logging script events that actually output messages to the log when it's turned on, and loads of scripts remain completely "silent".

 

That said, when you pile on loads of mods which use scripts that add an always running "cloak" effect to the player character or other NPCs, then yes, it can really slow things down in terms of responsiveness for anything script-related, and the vanilla game already has loads of things that depend on scripts. This causes script lag, but it is highly debatable as to whether it's directly related to CTDs in every case. There are normally other factors at play, and the "script-heavy" mods are just the thing(s) that breaks the proverbial camel's back (ie., pushes past the limits of what your system can handle.)


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#20 GrantSP

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 02:55 AM

@keithinhanoi
That is one the most constructive posts I have read in a long while.
Even though this thread issue doesn't affect me your info will be saved as good general background info.
Thanks
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#21 phazer11

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 11:54 AM

Yes there has been much misleading information in this thread. All of the mods in STEP have been tested. It is more likely that you did not follow the conflict resolution for the Packs you used (or they were outdated and/or incompatible with one another) or have an issue with the memory patch. Which packs did you use?


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#22 Vulgar1

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 02:11 PM

Yes there has been much misleading information in this thread. All of the mods in STEP have been tested. It is more likely that you did not follow the conflict resolution for the Packs you used (or they were outdated and/or incompatible with one another) or have an issue with the memory patch. Which packs did you use?

Oh I just want to clarify that I wasn't blaming STEP or those mods. Different systems can only take so much. He only has 2 gb vram for axample and he is running a STEP Extended/REGS hybrid.

There is debate on papyrus values but minor tweaks actually work well for some people. Even massive tweaks don't end worlds like some claim. I've been using iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=17179869184

which to me seems like crazy talk but it works.

That area is definitely a well known problaem causer and taking the small trail and goingall the way up to Embershard mine and along the mountain may work or seem like it's working, you might even make it through the meeting with Alvor or Gerdur but then still crash. It's more than likely his system can't handle the scripts or his textures are to high.

I wondered if the memory patch was working right. He has the right settings in SKSE.ini so I recommended -forcesteamloader.

There is a STEP CORE AND STEP EXTENDED pack for a reason. Of course everyone wants to run Extended and REGS plus some extra but not all systems can handle that so you have to dial it back a bit.


Edited by Vulgar1, 18 December 2014 - 02:51 PM.

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#23 TigerWolfe

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 02:18 PM

I'm actually not sure what the difference between Step Core and Step Extended even is anymore. There seems to be a lot of bleed over. IE some of the things I installed following the STEP Core list, were essential ESPs for the Extended Patch. But not essential for the Core Patch.


Not seeing anything about heaps in skse_steam_loader.log

skse_steam_loader.log

 

So here's a weird one. I installed the Memory Blocks Log mod, just to see what it outputs. And I couldn't get it to CTD or Freeze. Ran into Riverwood, spoke to Gerdur, left Riverwood ran back towards Helgen. Fought some wolves and then went back into Riverwood. I don't think the Memory Blocks Log patch fixed things, obviously... but that's the only change I made between my last post, last night, and today. I'm gonna start turning Mods back on and see if I can narrow things down. Looking at the Memory Blocks Log on that run, the highest number I hit was 256. 


Edited by TigerWolfe, 18 December 2014 - 02:41 PM.

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#24 TigerWolfe

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:03 PM

Reinstalled Wet and Cold, got the Crash. Went to the Memory Blocks Log, Block 1 topped out at 256, Block 2 topped out at 190. Interestingly enough Block 2 was actually higher than Block 1 at several points before the crash. 


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#25 TigerWolfe

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:36 PM

Uninstalled Wet and Cold, Reinstalled EBT. Freeze at the wolves... Block 1 256 Block 2 188.  It doesn't seem to be a memory issue, at least as far as I can interpret the data. Maybe I just can't play with those mods. Any input from the wiser modders out there?


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#26 Nozzer66

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:32 PM

That or the memory patch isn't actually working. If it taps at 256 and you still freeze, that may well be the issue.


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#27 TigerWolfe

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:47 PM

Is the Memory patch part of the STEP install? I don't see it/remember seeing it during the several times I've tried to get this to play nice. 

 

It's not. At least not 2.2.9. Found it, installed, testing.

 

No bueno, still freezing and I'm not getting any different numbers in the Memory Blocks Log. Still topping at 256 for Block 1 and 190 for Block 2.

Still not seeing any reference to heaps in skse_steam_loader.log


Edited by TigerWolfe, 18 December 2014 - 06:23 PM.

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#28 keithinhanoi

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 06:08 PM   Best Answer

@TigerWolfe - If those two lines I mentioned in my previous are not in skse_steam_loader.log, then the heap block memory fix setting in your skse.ini wasn't read, plain and simple. Even your test with Memory Blocks Log confirms this.

 

So, I will go out on a limb and say that you have discovered your problem right there.

 

A majority of the times I've seen people claiming the SKSE implementation of Sheson's memory fix doesn't work either:

  • did not actually have skse.ini in the correct location,
  • had not updated to SKSE 1.7.1, or
  • had set Windows to hide file extensions, and accidentally saved skse.ini as skse.ini.txt (as Nozzer66 points out)

SKSE will look for the skse.ini file in ... Skyrim/Data/SKSE/

 

Alternatively, if SKSE's script files have been installed as a mod in Mod Organizer, the .ini can be kept in there, in a subfolder named SKSE, like this:

 

wjnui9W.png

 

I would suggest this method for storing the skse.ini because then you can edit it directly in MO - just click on the INI-files tab as seen in the above pic of the mod info window, and then choose skse.ini to edit right in that window.

 

Until you see those two lines in skse_steam_loader.log, and verified that block 1 can go over 256, there is honestly no use in looking at other reasons for the CTDs.

 

If your skse.ini is in the correct location but the heap size lines are still not appearing in skse_steam_loader.log let us know, and we can help troubleshoot why it's not working.

 

Good luck!

 

 

@Vulgar1 -

 

Regarding your iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes setting - with absolutely no personal offence meant towards you, that is a ridiculously high number, and although not necessarily CTD-inducing, will almost guaranteed lead to Papyrus stack dumping, which means at best you get massive script lag, and at worst lots of scripts won't run or finish - in other words, things won't work as intended or expected.

 

I have just posted about this and the myth about another supposed "magical" game-fixing .ini setting in the Correct Enblocal Settings thread, here. I highly recommend reading it.

 

(Post edited to add one more reason why the SKSE implementation of the memory patch may not work - thanks to Nozzer66 for the reminder!!)


Edited by keithinhanoi, 18 December 2014 - 08:03 PM.

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#29 Nozzer66

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 06:17 PM

The other issue... make sure you're not hiding file extensions. Else your SKSE.ini could well ACTUALLY be SKSE.ini.txt. Been there, done that.


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#30 TigerWolfe

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 06:36 PM

File extensions are showing.

Looks like the .ini was in the wrong spot. I had it up one level from where it should be, added a SKSE folder to "data" folder for my SKSE mod in MO, put the .ini in there. File tree matches yours now. 

Made it into Riverwood and spoke to Gerdur. No crash so skse_skyrim_loader.log doesn't have any heaps, but, according to Memory Block Log Block 1 got up to 299. So looks like it's working now. Time to start turning things back on, and see if I need to tweak those values.


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