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NSFW: Lore-friendly Bodies

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#1 Harpalus

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 05:43 PM

This is a broadly-compatible body pack with a few design goals:
 
 • Replace the vanilla body with near-identical nude variants using a recommended set of textures.
 • Supports HDT and recommends settings that are not overbearing.
 • Eliminates sexualized and gendered female armor. No more boobplate.
 
1NgWo8q.jpg lbmAz0K.jpg
 
This pack is intended to be maximally compatible with almost everything. As indicated in the title, this pack is NSFW and contains nudity. Note that by using vanilla armor and a CBBE body you will experience minor texture issues when using skimpy armor designed for the vanilla body. Fixed forsworn armor is included. Mods are listed in the order they should appear in Mod Organizer.
 
If you don't want nudity, then this pack is not for you: STEP is already developing a solution that you will likely prefer. The Gender Neutral armor section might be of interest to you, however, and will work well independently.
 
Part 1: Less Gendered Armor
     Download and install Practical Female Armors - All-In-One Installer - NMM BAIN using the following options:
     • Select every option on the first page.
     • Vampire Armor
     • Chitin Heavy Armor
     • Nordic Carved Armor
     • No Compatibility Patches (unless you use the mods listed).
     Next, hide or delete JZBai_PracticalFemaleArmors.esp. It is included in my version of the mod below.
     This is a modified, more compatible version of Genderless Helmets, uploaded with permission. Please consider downloading the original and endorsing the mod author. All credit goes to witnaaay. This ensures that the Iron Helmet and the Ancient Nord Helmet are identical on both men and women. Due to clipping issues I have removed the female Forsworn Headdress for men from the mod. Female Forsworn are able to wear and spawn with both. My file is compatible with Weapons & Armour Fixes and the USKP. This includes JZBai_PracticalFemaleArmors.esp from Practical Female Armors.
 
NSFW Part 2: Bodies
 
Unfortunately I have had to drop one of the original design goals: (Turn the female weight breast size slider into a muscle slider). I am still very interested in this design goal, but there is currently no easy way to implement this in a maximally compatible fashion. I posted an idea here and I welcome and encourage comments and thoughts on this. I am still interested in achieving this.
 
The instructions and attachment below are exclusively for people that want to try out my alternate body meshes. They try to make female weight slider into a muscle slider, just like the male weight slider. Unfortunately, while there are no technical conflicts with anything, there are some noticeable clipping problems with some clothing and armour, and any armour that hasn't been expressly converted will give you a different body when worn.
 
NSFW Weight Slider adjustment (alpha quality)
 
Forum rules, as clarified for me: you can link to NSFW images with a suitable warning, but please don't attach NSFW images to your posts, and please don't use image tags to preview them. I don't want to have this thread locked or deleted.
 
The attachment has no NSFW content, and is not a body mesh.

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#2 dreadflopp

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 01:58 AM

I think this is very interesting. Most guides/recommendations regarding body mods focus on female breast size and making the characters look photoshopped. STEP has recommendations for male body textures and will (probably) feature female body textures once EssArrBees textures are finished.
Expanding on this or give a different vision is the purpose of packs and I think that is exactly what this pack would to. The change to women of skyrim especially would be considered a fix, it is that important. In the world of Skyrim/Tamriel there is no difference between males and females when it comes down to fighting capabilities and there are a lot of female warriors/soldiers/bandits etc. These should of course have the weight slider change muscle size, not breast size.
Pumping Iron sounds really good for immersion. CNHF looks good to me, but I am not really good at body mods and have no recommendations on my own.
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#3 Nozzer66

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 04:13 AM

I'd be interested. The weight slider being only for breast size has been giving me the screaming sh*ts for years.


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#4 kryptopyr

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 08:07 AM

I would absolutely love to see this.  A true muscle/strength slider for females along with practical female armors would be amazing. 

I'd really like to see it based on the vanilla body or the STEP version of the vanilla body, though.  With the exception of CNHF, most of the female body mods have anatomical issues (like ignoring the existence of pelvic bones).


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#5 Harpalus

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 10:08 AM

Thanks for the interest! I've posted the second version. I brought the hips more in line with the vanilla female mesh and increased muscle mass suitably. I'm on the fence about further bodyslide support: I have a pack for footwear and amulets now, which is good. Bodyslide support for more armor is available, but I'm not sure if I want to include it. Ignoring the 750mb download, it also significantly increases mesh count for a variety of armor and clothing, which sounds like bad news for people with low-end graphics cards. Caliente's vanilla outfits do this as well, but I think to a smaller degree. There's also this pack, but it has some issues with various outfits. I'll probably sort through the download and pick out the outfits that are problem-free and not included in my earlier packs.
 
I decided against Diverse Muscle Tones, as it doesn't work as elegantly as I'd hoped. I was hoping for some SKSE based approach that supports two normal maps for females, depending on the weight slider. I'm not certain if this is possible, but if it is, please let me know! I want to avoid compatibility problems with this pack, and Diverse Muscle Tones edits NPC records.
 

STEP's recommendation for men has a decent nude mesh that I'll probably include as a recommendation for people that dislike Schlongs of Skyrim. The Sundracon mesh is also closer to (or at least almost identical to) the vanilla male mesh, which is good for consistency. Still, despite the juvenile name and silly aspects of the larger SoS mod, the lite variant is what I'll be going with, on principle. If I'm including HDT for females, I'll be including SoS. I've never experienced any of the issues with SoS Light that people report with its larger variant.

 

There's also Shape Atlas for Men, which I need to look into still. It seems to go beyond the scope of what I originally intended, but if it has the armor support I might switch over.

 

I think this is very interesting. Most guides/recommendations regarding body mods focus on female breast size and making the characters look photoshopped. STEP has recommendations for male body textures and will (probably) feature female body textures once EssArrBees textures are finished.
Expanding on this or give a different vision is the purpose of packs and I think that is exactly what this pack would to. The change to women of skyrim especially would be considered a fix, it is that important. In the world of Skyrim/Tamriel there is no difference between males and females when it comes down to fighting capabilities and there are a lot of female warriors/soldiers/bandits etc. These should of course have the weight slider change muscle size, not breast size.
Pumping Iron sounds really good for immersion. CNHF looks good to me, but I am not really good at body mods and have no recommendations on my own.

 

My recommendations are going to differ from STEP's here, as I'm not content with the vanilla female body meshes in various ways. I do respect the recommendations they chose and are working on, though. CNHF is much better in some respects than I can achieve with Bodyslide (better muscles, for example), it also comes across as a rather masculine mesh, has no support, and has clipping and texture issues with armor/clothing meshes that it doesn't support. I think women can be strong, capable, and still feminine. Still, between the two goals, making them look strong is a more desirable goal.

 

I'd be interested. The weight slider being only for breast size has been giving me the screaming sh*ts for years.

Yeah, it's bothered me too. At the moment breast size doesn't vary at all with my preset. You may want see a doctor about your verbose excrement problem.

 

I would absolutely love to see this.  A true muscle/strength slider for females along with practical female armors would be amazing. 

I'd really like to see it based on the vanilla body or the STEP version of the vanilla body, though.  With the exception of CNHF, most of the female body mods have anatomical issues (like ignoring the existence of pelvic bones).

Thanks for the interest! I'll be going with CBBE here as I'm not content with the vanilla meshes and have no 3D modeling experience. I can fix most complaints by adjusting the Bodyslide sliders, however. I like the STEP pack being worked on, but it also doesn't (by design) address boob-slider syndrome and has no support for nudity or HDT.

 

That being said, I hope you appreciate the new version! I took care to minimize the differences between the vanilla body and my preset with this iteration. Comparing it to a vanilla forsworn mesh it looked surprisingly similar in structure. The vanilla meshes actually already have decent muscle on them, but they have them on the minimum slider as well, so the effect is comparatively muted. Breast size is smaller on my meshes at maximum slider settings. Hip size is now comparable. There will always be a noticeable difference in body shape when equipping a non-supported armor or clothing mesh, but the difference is now less noticeable. Fortunately, most of the armor I haven't covered yet is not exactly form-fitting, so it'll be harder to notice.


Edited by Harpalus, 10 March 2015 - 02:40 PM.

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#6 afonik

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 11:56 AM

Just bear in mind that the success of this package will depend at a certain degree of STEP and/or SRLE compatibility.

 

Good luck and thanks for your work.


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#7 Harpalus

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 12:00 PM

Just bear in mind that the success of this package will depend at a certain degree of STEP and/or SRLE compatibility.

 

Good luck and thanks for your work.

 

Thank you! It's completely compatible with both so far as I know. The obvious exception, of course, is UNPB (and related clothing/armor) from SRLE and the body-related meshes and textures from STEP. Pumping Iron has an ESP file but I can confirm that it's a very lightweight mod without conflicts. (It's also optional). Caliente's vanilla outfit meshes include a very minimal ESP file that fixes a mesh problem with guards, and Practical Female Armor includes a similar ESP file for fixing a mesh issue or two. All of it should be conflict free, though, but I haven't ever installed a full SRLE pack. Hopefully somebody with a full (sans UNPB) SRLE pack can fire them all up with TES5Edit and let me know if any conflicts arise.


Edited by Harpalus, 10 March 2015 - 12:38 PM.

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#8 gpthree

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 05:47 PM

Is there a way to make Pumping Iron work for the vanilla body?


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#9 Harpalus

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 06:48 PM

Is there a way to make Pumping Iron work for the vanilla body?

 

Pumping Iron already works with females. There aren't any technical issues with the mod that I'm aware of. To see the issue, take any female character and (without using a body mod) remove all of your equipment. Then, using showracemenu, adjust the weight slider back and forth and judge for yourself. The issue for me is immersion.

 

I'm attempting to remedy that with a new body. If what you really want is the vanilla body without the chest size adjusting then I'm afraid you'll have to work out slider settings for yourself: the BodySlide tool allows you to generate a vanilla body that is mostly accurate, but it disables all of the sliders. Producing a vanilla body without the breast growth would require creating a new preset, and coming up with one that closely matches the vanilla body would require a fair amount of effort. That being said, my current preset is reasonably close.

 

I never really expected to put out anything before, as I'm not experienced with 3D modeling and I'm pretty much just using the Bodyslide tool and supporting mods. Unfortunately there seems to be relatively little interest in resolving this, so I wanted to try fixing it myself. UNP, UNPB, CBBE (including literally every preset included with Bodyslide) don't resolve this either: the weight slider for any of these body mods is really a "thickness/breast size" slider, not a "muscle" slider. Even CNHF has a "d-cup" body, and most of the supporting armor for it is based off of it: the effect being that even CNHF women have boob slider syndrome. There's no escaping it: you name it, every preset or body mod I've ever seen for Skyrim has one, with the exception of pure CNHF (without the d-cup option). STEP is doing good work on a female body replacer, but they're focusing on compatibility with vanilla. Of course women have differing chest sizes, but as there aren't two weight sliders (and I happen to like Pumping Iron) I prefer to just get rid of the size variance and make the slider focus on muscle growth instead.

 

Hope that clears things up!


Edited by Harpalus, 15 March 2015 - 07:57 PM.

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#10 Harpalus

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:21 PM

I'm still working on this a little when I have time. I've been putting a lot of thought into what textures I want to recommend, and have done a lot of texture comparisons in the past day. I still need to finish updating the OP. I encourage people to try it out and see what you think: instructions are included. Version 3 is uploaded. I scaled back the upper-end of the muscle slider a little and decreased thigh and breast size to resolve some of my clipping issues. Some thoughts on how the pack is progressing:

 

I like my current sliders, but there's clipping with some armor and clothing. I can't reduce muscle mass much more without compromising the "strong woman" premise, so I may end up fixing up these meshes myself in Outfit Studio and uploading the final version.

 

Despite my original preference for SoS "Light", I've decided to drop it for the Sundracon meshes from Better Males. I did look at Shape Atlas for Men, but it does too much for my taste. I have a few reasons for switching to Better Males (besides avoiding a link to LL): it's better supported by available textures, the mesh more closely fits the default male mesh, and it allows me to include Windsong Character Overhaul in this pack (which will be 100% optional). STEP textures will still overwrite everything in WSCO, but including it is a nice touch. This is also a little beyond the original scope of the pack, but it's relatively easy to support and I find I quite like it after overwriting its textures. I'm open to suggestions for character improvements to compliment WSCO, but I want to keep this minimal (Inhabitants of Skyrim is out) and lore-friendly (not everyone in Skyrim is attractive!). I want to keep things relatively simple and compatible. WSCO will confict, but it edits far fewer NPCs than I expected (which is a bonus for compatibility), and is very "lore-friendly". A patch is available for Requiem, and I'll be making a patch for STEP compatibility.

 

I've also settled on NSFWish: Forgotten Argonian Roots, NSFW: Feminine Khajiit, and NSFW: Better CoverKhajiits for the beast textures. I had to create a custom texture for Forgotten Argonian Roots to get it working properly with Better Males without seams, so I'll need to get permission from the mod author to include it. I'm not a huge fan of the Khajiit male texture I linked, but there's a pretty severe lack of texture support here. The best I found (in my opinion) was NSFWish: Muscular Khajiit (the light version), but that doesn't support Better Males. If anybody has a recommendation for Khajiit males, I'd love to hear it. I am, of course, waiting for SkySight Skins support for Better Males, and for extra support for the beast races I'll be including the excellent Khajiit and Argonian textures from Bethesda Performance Textures, allowing them to be overwritten. This gives them much nicer warpaint/markings/etc than either vanilla or Xenius. I also rather prefer Gamwich's textures to Coverkhajiits.

 

I have a personal preference for Xenius's eyes over STEP's Natural Eyes recommendation, as I dislike some changes Natural Eyes makes: it takes away all-yellow eyes from Altmer, for example, taking away some of their uniqueness.


Edited by Harpalus, 29 April 2015 - 08:03 AM.

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#11 Nozzer66

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 06:09 PM

Sounding Good!


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#12 dreadflopp

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:34 AM

Sound really good. Will have some time today or tomorrow to install this and give some feedback. Thanks for your work!
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#13 dreadflopp

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:35 AM

Could you give some install instructions:

CBBE options?

Caliente's Vanilla Outfits should we use the meshes or only the plugin and the bodyslider folder?

Practical female armors I'm guessing all options except aMidianBorn?


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#14 Harpalus

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:47 AM

Could you give some install instructions:

CBBE options?

Caliente's Vanilla Outfits should we use the meshes or only the plugin and the bodyslider folder?

Practical female armors I'm guessing all options except aMidianBorn?

The only thing about CBBE that matters is Bodyslide. Just use standard CBBE. (Perhaps I should have linked to Bodyslide instead, but I haven't actually tested to see if ignoring CBBE and just using Bodyslide works, so just select standard CBBE). The textures will be overwritten and the meshes will be re-generated by Bodyslide. I store everything that Bodyslide generates inside the CBBE folder, rather than make a separate entry for generated Bodyslide meshes. (This means you'll need CBBE to overwrite Practical Female Armors in Mod Organizer, yet be overwritten by Mature Skin Textures or whatever other skin textures you prefer).

 

For Caliente's Vanilla Outfits, we only care about the plugin and the bodyslide folder. Again, the meshes will be overwritten. There are two versions of all of these outfits that show up in Bodyslide, annoyingly: "vanilla" and non-vanilla outfits. The vanilla outfits do just that: they generate the vanilla outfits, so you'll be generating the "non-vanilla" versions of all CalClothes and CalArmors. (And then, in turn, overwriting some of those by generating Practical Female Armors, which is why I do that last).

 

I do recommend every armor for Practical Female Armors, so I use every option except for AMB. I don't use aMidianBorn armor textures, but if you use glass variants or differently ebony then you'll need to select it. We'll be overwriting most of this when we generate the Practical Female Armor meshes in Bodyslide (the main download is adapted for vanilla females), but we'll still need the ESP file that Practical Female Armor includes and also the vampire robe textures. Besides, unless you're hurting for hard drive space it doesn't hurt to have the vanilla outfits available in the Practical Female Armor folder if you ever decide you prefer the vanilla female body mesh.

 

You'll probably need to generate FNIS at the end, and I should have noted that in the instructions. 

 

Sorry for the confusion! I'll have to take the time to write better instructions. Most of the work is just opening up Bodyslide, generating the outfits, and copying and pasting them over..it's less work than the big block of text might indicate. I'm being too verbose about everything. I hope to just have a final download when everything is finalized, so things will be easier. If all you want to do is to test the body, then ignore Caliente's Vanilla Outfits, CB++, and just use Bodyslide to generate the female body I included. You'd probably want Practical Female Armors (regular, vanilla version with all non-AMB options selected) just to see what they look like, as well.

 

If I have a "beta" period, I'll distribute an archive for testing. I have a lot of work to do before that, though..once I finalize the sliders and the actual body shape, I'll need to use Outfit Studio to fix things up by hand. In my limited testing so far, the starting prison clothes have clipping problems with the shoulders and chest, and hips clip through the Ancient Nord armor, so there are some issues here or there. I'll probably need to test every outfit that ships in the game with both extremes of the weight slider. The few vanilla outfits I converted seemed fine, ironically, so I'm even tempted to drop BodySlide entirely - but then there will be noticeable arm and hip size variation when equipping/unequipping things. I'll wait until I finalize the female body sliders, though, so people have plenty of time to leave feedback.


Edited by Harpalus, 18 March 2015 - 03:10 PM.

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#15 dreadflopp

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:23 PM

This is confusing to me sorry. If I'll start with just the body is this correct:

Install order

 

CBBE

Mature skin textures

No more ugly bronze shine

XPMS

 

Install your preset into CBBE bodyslide/slider presets

Run bodyslide.exe

Choose CBBE body

Choose your preset

Ctrl+click build

 

And batch build only if I have installed clothing/armors, right?


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