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Microstuttering in 3rd person running/horseback riding on good rig

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#46 TechAngel85

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 09:55 PM

It shouldn't unless it's running out of VRAM and RAM. That's the only time a pagefile would be used by any game.



#47 scorpgul

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:49 PM

It shouldn't unless it's running out of VRAM and RAM. That's the only time a pagefile would be used by any game.

So in essence, disabling pagefile completely should NOT affect Skyrim in any negative way and instead remove a possible "bottleneck" and boost performance shouldn't it? Especially when I have 6GB VRAM and 16GB System RAM?


Edited by scorpgul, 20 August 2015 - 06:51 PM.

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#48 TechAngel85

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 08:50 PM

That's correct; however, that doesn't mean other programs wouldn't use it for other reasons.

 

Have you disabled all unneeded background processes? At this point I'm starting to suspect the card itself or something else in the system that is choking your performance. Simply because it runs other games okay wouldn't really matter. Skyrim is most likely using a lot more resources than other games would. Find another game that would use the same or more resources as Skyrim to find out if they card is the cause. I currently don't have any recommendations on that, but perhaps others would. I doubt any benchmark software would do the trick.



#49 Greg

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:14 PM

So in essence, disabling pagefile completely should NOT affect Skyrim in any negative way and instead remove a possible "bottleneck" and boost performance shouldn't it? Especially when I have 6GB VRAM and 16GB System RAM?

There is very little difference in performance and it's a common misconception that the page file reduces performance. It is possible for the page file to use significant I/O (commonly known as thrashing), but this indicates a significant lack of physical memory for the workload.

 

I think your post that Windows is running low on memory 30 seconds into a playthrough clearly indicates you don't have sufficient physical memory and virtual memory to run Skyrim along with everything else that's running in the background. This may be due to other applications running in the background that are using a lot of memory. You may be able to overcome this by finding and closing applications that are using lots of memory, but you'll have to be willing to keep memory usage below the physical memory limit if you don't have a page file.

 

My best advice is to let Windows manage the size of the page file. 16GB sounds like a lot of memory,  but even on my system I have only 2.7GB free before I start Skyrim. Granted, Firefox and two instance of Visual Studio are eating up a little over 3GB but that still leaves 10GB used by the system and other processes.



#50 scorpgul

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:12 AM

That's correct; however, that doesn't mean other programs wouldn't use it for other reasons.

 

Have you disabled all unneeded background processes? At this point I'm starting to suspect the card itself or something else in the system that is choking your performance. Simply because it runs other games okay wouldn't really matter. Skyrim is most likely using a lot more resources than other games would. Find another game that would use the same or more resources as Skyrim to find out if they card is the cause. I currently don't have any recommendations on that, but perhaps others would. I doubt any benchmark software would do the trick.

 

Every single unnecessary background process is disabled when I game and even when I am doing other tasks. I constantly monitor usage and new processes that appear.. My antivirus (Windows Defender & its Firewall) are the only processes I could think of that are running in the background. I have disabled them and the stutter is the same.  It cannot be the card as the same issue happened on my GTX 780 3GB and my GTX 780 Ti 3GB and every other game runs flawlessly. My PC makes short work of any other demanding game you can think of at max settings, even using downsampling. Crysis 3, Wtcher 3, both Metro games run fine. I have Crysis/Crysis Warhead heavily modded with textures, draw distance and trees/grass density increased to insane amounts to the point where you can see every single small object across the map, running at 4K downsampled using more than 3.5GB VRAM and the games runs like a knife through butter, not a single stutter. It is simply impressive.

 

Also remember that I said that in 2012, before patch 1.4/Official High Res Textures came out, I had 0 stutter using a GTX 780 3GB at everything Ultra settings. I played a character to level 50 doing almost everything,  then I took a break from Skyrim. When I came back after the patch/dlc I was greeted with this exact same microstutter using the same GTX 780 which persists to this day despite upgrades. Nothing changed with my system when I started playing again back then. Same motherboard, RAM, GPU and it was a mechanical harddrive. What I did not mention however, it was a Torrent version I downloaded as soon as Skyrim released to "try" the game. So the version i played did not get patched/dlc added at all. It was pure vanilla. As soon as I bought Skyrim and started a new game, this problem started. Redownloading/reinstalling the game, formatting PC did not help as it still persists today on a fresh install of Windows 10. This leads me to believe that something is wrong with the official game or steam or one of the official patches. Also remember I linked a thread where a guy with similar specs to mine had the EXACT same issues? It cannot be a GPU fault.

 

However, I am not ruling out the possibility that something else in my system could be choking the performance. I have stress tested my GPU to the max and can safely say that it is not faulty. The SSD I am using has been tested and compared with benchmarks other people have done and it is actually FASTER lol so I doubt I/O is the issue. The RAM could use some testing. I read somewhere that some motherboards do not have the bandwidth to transfer so much data that is why stutters happen sometimes. I have an ASUS Sabertooth Z77 which is 3 years old and uses Intel Chipset. I don't think its so ancient to struggle with bandwidth speed. Have installed the drivers on ASUS website.

 

 

There is very little difference in performance and it's a common misconception that the page file reduces performance. It is possible for the page file to use significant I/O (commonly known as thrashing), but this indicates a significant lack of physical memory for the workload.

 

I think your post that Windows is running low on memory 30 seconds into a playthrough clearly indicates you don't have sufficient physical memory and virtual memory to run Skyrim along with everything else that's running in the background. This may be due to other applications running in the background that are using a lot of memory. You may be able to overcome this by finding and closing applications that are using lots of memory, but you'll have to be willing to keep memory usage below the physical memory limit if you don't have a page file.

 

My best advice is to let Windows manage the size of the page file. 16GB sounds like a lot of memory,  but even on my system I have only 2.7GB free before I start Skyrim. Granted, Firefox and two instance of Visual Studio are eating up a little over 3GB but that still leaves 10GB used by the system and other processes.

 

Thick8 is the one who got the "Windows running low on Memory" warning when disabling pagefile and he has 8GB RAM. I never had this problem even when disabling pagefile. Like I said I have nothing else running in the background when I play a game except my antivirus/firewall and even when I disabled them, the stuttering persisted. Have you had a look at my Performance Monitor Logs on the first post? I/O usage is very spiky and the mini spikes match the Fps fluctuations. You can also see RAM and VRAM usage. Does anything look abnormal to you?

 

Posting them again:

 

Log 1:

up301OQ.png

 

Log2:

FurOkCt.png

 

Downloads:

https://www.mediafir...Stutter Log.log

https://www.mediafir...utter Log 2.log


Edited by scorpgul, 21 August 2015 - 08:20 AM.

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#51 scorpgul

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:48 AM

Hmm with that card and 'just' STEP:Extended you wouldn't expect that much stuttering. Perhaps a matter of ENBoost [MEMORY] ini settings? With Distant object details do you mean DynDOLOD or ini settings? You could try the Medium or Low presets if you use DynDOLOD.

My ENBoost settings have been verified by TechAngel85 and I have even made the changes he suggested. In fact, even vanilla Skyrim gives me this problem, with or without EnBoost/Sheson memory patch etc.

 

By Distant Object Details, I mean the actual game option itself, which controls the following ini settings:

 

fTreeLoadDistance
fBlockMaximumDistance
fBlockLevel1Distance
fBlockLevel0Distance
fSplitDistanceMult

 

fTreeLoadDistance being the main culprit. Its Ultra value is 75000 and its High value is 40000. The stuttering becomes VERY noticeable once I go over 50000 and if I use 2k Textures on top of that, the stuttering starts to get severe, turning into actual minifreezes. I am already using Medium DynDolod.

 

Right now, I have every texture mod at 1K, DynDoLod at Medium and the Skyrim Slider settings at halfway except Grass all the way to the right, just like STEP recommends (I thought having a beast rig that exceeds STEP Extended requirements would let me set all sliders to maximum, looks like i was wrong)

 

I have also set fTreeLoadDistance at 55000 and this modest combo is the only way I am able to play the game without the stuttering really getting on my nerves and ruining it.

55000 is the absolute maximum I can set it to while using 1K textures. If I was using 2K, it would stutter bad.

 

It is not totally gone but it is more tolerable than before. Also worth mentioning is that playing at 1080p or 4K does not make any difference to the stutters. This is the only way it seems that I get to compensate for the 1K textures, by being able to run the game at 4K which does look MUCH better than 1080p even at 8xantialiasing

 

I would so love to go crazy with full 2k/4k textures, enb and all that stuff but this game does not agree with my rig for some reason and simply refuses to run without stutters without lowering settings/textures

 

 

Stuttering with just STEP Extended and GTX 980 Ti????  ::O:  ::O:

 

Something must be seriously messed up in your configuration...ENBoost, Memory Patch, ini files, etc!

 

i mean I am running Skyrim with SR:LE + REGS + a ton (i mean myriads) of other mods, 2K/4K graphics where applicable (not 4K landscape textures, just clutter here and there) + Vividian ENB default version on an AMD 7970 3GB and only encounter a very small stutter when i load up exterior cells for 2-3 seconds and then all normal.

I mean in my case you could have expected that but on a 980 Ti & Step Extended only??

I am in shock! ...and I was thinking of purchasing an MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6GB on September...!!!

Even I am shocked, which is why I am still trying to understand how this is possible. And posts like yours are what make me sad :( lol

Yep, STEP Extended only and running at 1K textures. Ini, Enboost, Memory patch are all STEP recommended values.

 

If you read my first post you will get a better idea. I have Performance Monitor Logs, Load order screenshots etc.


Edited by scorpgul, 21 August 2015 - 10:48 AM.

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#52 Thick8

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:50 PM

I haven't dropped down from the ultra settings and 2k textures. I too have turned off all non essential processes. Granted I game at a resolution of 5918x1080, but still; I can play Farcry 3 with every in-game visual option maxed out, 4xAA, and 16xAF while maintaining a locked FPS of 30.

I think it's just Skyrim. I can live with the micro-pause when crossing borders but running out of memory resources with 8Gb of Vram and 8Gb of physical ram is a little frustrating. I find myself having to save my game every 5 minutes because I never know when it's going to freeze at a load screen or just CTD in the middle of a fight. Just last night I had a CTD and the game would not restart. In looking for the problem I ran LOOT and it said that CCO was dirty with 97 ITMs. cleaned it (tes5edit didn't find any issues) re-installed it (97 ITMs still there) and the game won't start.

I thought to revive Skyrim and play through it with all the new eye candy but it doesn't look like that is meant to be.

I will spend  some (not much) time this evening trying to resolve this new issue. If it works, great. If not then I will probably give Witcher 3 a go.


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#53 oqhansoloqo

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 06:09 PM

A long time ago (maybe 2 years) I was having HORRID FPS issues... I couldn't figure out what was the problem for a couple weeks.  Then I decided to look at my hardware and found out that somehow my CPU heatsink had partially detached from my CPU.  So I cleaned the surfaces, used an excellent thermal compound, re-set the heatsink onto the CPU.  After doing that I got speeds I never had before.  It made me wonder if my heatsink hadn't been always partially detached ever since I first started using it up until that point.


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#54 Thick8

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 06:30 PM

I know heat is not the issue. I have a geothermally cooled custom built water cooled system. My CPU never goes above 56c and my video cards never get above 49c. I have waterblocks on my CPU, NB Vreg array, SB, and both video cards.  Those temp are the highest it goes when running both Furmark and Prime95 at the same time with my FX-8350 clocked at 5Ghz and my 290s clocked at 1175/1475. Nothing like good ol' mother earth to keep your rig cool ::D:


Edited by Thick8, 21 August 2015 - 06:36 PM.

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#55 TechAngel85

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:36 PM

Looking at your logs, your FPS dips coincide with spikes in your GPU and sometimes CPU. I don't know the cause but this was my observation.

 

Can you make the following changing to your SkyrimPrefs.ini in MO: https://forum.step-p...ation/?p=137458



#56 scorpgul

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 09:06 AM

Looking at your logs, your FPS dips coincide with spikes in your GPU and sometimes CPU. I don't know the cause but this was my observation.

 

Can you make the following changing to your SkyrimPrefs.ini in MO: https://forum.step-p...ation/?p=137458

I made the changes and bumped ftreeloadDistance back to 75000 and the stutters started again. The shadow popins also were very distracting with those settings. Distant Detail really is the enemy it seems, even with 1K textures


Edited by scorpgul, 22 August 2015 - 09:08 AM.

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#57 TechAngel85

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 09:22 AM

At this point, I'm out of ideas.

#58 Lonewolf

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 11:13 AM

I know this may sound stupid, but since you have tried everything... Maybe try to restore a clean STEP install and activate the FPS limiter of the ENB (Or even better, the Nvidia one from Nvidia Inspector) and limit the FPS to 55-59? Last time I solved my stuttering this way.


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#59 darkside

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 01:02 AM

I have similar spec with scorpgul - i7-4790K, 980 ti 6 GB VRAM, 16GB RAM, Skyrim is on Samsung 840 PRO SSD, Playing at 1920x1200 60hz. This spec should run Skyrim smoothly. I thought.

I have heavily modded Skyrim SR:LE + REGS + MMO pack. This setup is much heavier in term of textures and script load than STEP Extended. I use only 1-2K textures and ini tweaks per SR:LE guide. DynDOLOD at high settings. Terrain manager at Ultra setting.

I have the exact same problem as scorpgul. I will call it macro-stutter when loading new cells. I tried everything I can think of as well as tweaks suggested in various forums. No improvement.

Changing to 1K textures does nothing. I don't think textures are problem. My VRAM usage never goes over 4GB even with all 2K textures

I tried setup without DynDOLOD. The game is as smooth as butter. I also tried DynDOLOD at low setting, which is acceptably smooth.

I even tried SDO out of desperation, it performs worse than DynDOLOD

Conclusion

- I think a combination of script load and new distant objects loading cause this macro-stutter when loading new cells. I expect more from my 980 ti, but this may be limitation of Skyrim engine.

- DynDOLOD itself is not a script heavy mod, but it may be the last straw that broke the camel's back (heavily modded Skyrim).

- From reading forum, I noticed that only newer cards seem to have this problem. I don't know that there are any intrinsic problems with these cards (780, 970, 980, 980 ti)

Further testing and idea for solution

- I will try to cut down some constant running script mods (eg. EBT, Foot print, BFS effect, Wet&Cold, Frostfall) to run higher setting of DynDOLOD.


Edited by darkside, 18 October 2015 - 01:41 AM.

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#60 Pretendeavor

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 03:45 AM

I've had similar problems for weeks and found that tweaking (or removing) DynDOLOD did the most to increase performance. I think it simply adds too many objects to an already heavy build. Try making manual profiles based on the 'low' profile after reading its manual, you can increase performance but still keep distant animated waterfalls etc.


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