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Not So Fast - Mage Guild (by cdcooley)

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#16 gpthree

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 11:00 AM

Thieves Guild Requirements is the closest mod that does so.

There's also:

 

Destroy the Thieves Guild

Disband the Thieves Guild

 

edit: Actually, not really sure these would qualify as overhauls...


Edited by gpthree, 01 May 2015 - 11:01 AM.

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#17 Solmyr

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 08:40 AM

Yeah, I've been looking for more of a storyline overhaul ever since I read this: https://www.shamusyo...edtale/?p=14422


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#18 Shadriss

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, I've been looking for more of a storyline overhaul ever since I read this: https://www.shamusyo...edtale/?p=14422

Having read that article, I am reminded of Billy Madison. "I honestly feel dumber for having played that questline. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your souls."


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#19 plaGGy

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 01:38 AM

Not... quite.

 

Main Quest - Check.

Companions - Check.

Mages - Check.

Thieves - Check.

Dark Brotherhood.... not so much.

 

Granted, it doesn't have the same timeing issues, but I think a small change to how they are handled would be nice. I haven't played through them recently, so maybe my memory is flawed (also, I'm old... I'll play that card), but the main questline of the DB would seem, to me, to suffer similar 'rapid promotion' sickness. Now, granted, the circuimstances involved are slightly different, but even so, some of the early timing still seems fast. "Oh, you killed Grelod for us... you're in!" is Ok... but then, with little to no assassinations later, things build, and quickly.

 

But hey, if one's gonna get left out, I think we've got the right one. This pair from Cooly have been quite well done.

 

What are the Mods for Thieves Guild and Companions?

Thieves Guild Requirements Comes into mind right now, but is there another one?

 

And whats the one for Companions... im pretty sure i used some in the past but i dont remember at all...

 

I Overall really like the Story lines of the guilds but it doenst make sense that you can complete them in a day or two... Aela pretty much gives you a quest right after you finished the last one mentioning they have found something.... breaking Immersion like nothing else :/


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#20 cdcooley

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:48 AM

I use kryptopyr's Thieves Guild Requirements and DreamKing's Enhanced Skyrim Factions - Companions Guild. DreamKing's mod comes in two versions, one just adds requirements that slow down the pace and the other adds new (unvoiced) dialogue that fleshes out the guild a little more. I prefer the Requirements-only version myself.


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#21 Greg

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 08:54 PM

Marked for Testing.

#22 baronaatista

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 01:56 AM

Yeah, I've been looking for more of a storyline overhaul ever since I read this: https://www.shamusyo...edtale/?p=14422

haha I know this is an old ass topic, but that article is fantastic.  I've thought about writing one just like it many times over - and the terrible part is, you can apply the same logic with the same results on the companions and the college of winterhold quests as well.  unnecessarily convoluted, often self-contradictory, and worst of all thematically inappropriate.  The guilds of Skyrim were almost all fumbled - the dark brotherhood is the only one that escapes at least the thematically inappropriate title - it is, through and through, a guild of assassins.  


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#23 Greg

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:24 PM

From the mod's description:
 

Introduces two pauses in the rather short mage guild quest line at the College of Winterhold and allows for customizing the start of the three apprentices' quests. The actual time delays can be set with SkyUI's MCM (or the console).

  • Tolfdir will not start the Saarthal quest at the end of the initial lesson Wards. After 8 days if you are near Tolfdir on some morning before 9:00 (which you will be if sleeping in your assigned bed) he will approach and tell you about the expedition to Saarthal. (Since you and the other apprentices are all in the room, the dialog still makes sense.)
  • After recovering the lost books and being sent to Tolfdir by Urag, Tolfdir will make his observations about the Orb, but Ancano will not interrupt the conversation. After 8 days the Psijic monk will have arrived and if you enter the Hall of Elements Ancano will be looking for you.
  • Brelyna, J'Zargo, and Onmund have personal quests that originally only start after the Saarthal quest is complete. But now they can be started earlier. By default, Brelyna's personal quest will be available on the day after the Wards lesson and then J'Zargo's on the next day and then Onmund's after that. You can set all three to start on the same day if you like. Any that are not started before you enter Saarthal will be started when you make your report to the archmage.

I played the game using two different approaches. In the first playthrough I completed Urag's side quests to fetch various books and slept in the College of Winterhold until the Saarthal quest triggered. After completing the Saarthal quest up to Tolfdir's musings on the Orb, I completed a bunch more of Urag's side quests to fetch more books until Ancano appeared.

 

In the second playthrough, I attended Tolfdir's initial lesson on wards and went AWOL for a couple of weeks completing side quests elsewhere. When I finally returned to the College of Winterhold, I slept in the bed until 8:00 am. When I awoke, Tolfidir walked over and started the Saarthal quest. After completing the Saarthal quest and its various side quests, I went AWOL again for a couple of weeks while completing various quests and side quests elsewhere. When I finally returned to the College of Winterhold and entered the library, Ancano appeared.

 

Overall the mod works very well for what it does and I think it fits into the STEP guide, but it is really up to player to decide what to do with the delays between the quests.



#24 Kelmych

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:56 PM

I also activated this mod recently and I used the approach that Greg did on his second playthrough for the Saarthal quest. It worked properly. I just started the next mage guild quest (find books).



#25 cdcooley

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 08:39 PM

The mage quest line isn't long enough to be convoluted.

1. Cast a novice or apprentice level spell for Faralda.
2. Get a "tour" from Mirabelle (optional) and learn "Lesser Wards" from Tolfdir.
3. Explore Saarthal then report back to the Archmage.
4. Recover some books from Fellglow Keep for Urag.
5. Talk to lots of people and a former person who is now a glowing light.
6. Explore Mzulft and meet a paranoid idiot then head home.
7. Find Ancano behaving badly and destroy a few annoying magic anomalies.
8. Retrieve an artifact from Labyrinthian supposedly crafted by the god of magic himself.
9. Wield the nearly worthless "artifact" a few times and be appointed archmage.

Even if your character sleeps like a real person you can complete the whole thing in one game week.

The magicka draining effect in Labyrinthian poses absolutely no problem to anyone except a "pure" page. Anyone who wields a weapon (including a staff) will find it one of the easiest dungeons in the game.

And the worst part is that you don't have to use more than six spells total (each cast one time) to become archmage. And if you have the right set of staves or scrolls you could get away only learning that one spell from Tolfdir.

Edited by cdcooley, 22 March 2016 - 08:39 PM.

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#26 TechAngel85

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 08:58 PM

So basically, Skyrim was not designed for players that like to play as mages and magic related quests seem to have been a second thought by Bethesda. Gotcha.

#27 Greg

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 09:15 PM

I remember using one spell for Faralda and one spell with the Amulet of Saarthal (although I suppose I could have used a staff if I had one), but I don't remember using any other spells in this quest line to become archmage. I can certainly say I became archmage with crude novice magic skills and nearly zip magicka.

 

Just as a curious question, is it even possible to play Skyrim as a pure mage without having to rely on weapons? I've tried it a couple of times, but I always quickly reverted back to a bow given how quickly my magicka depleted without doing much damage.



#28 GrantSP

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:01 PM

I remember using one spell for Faralda and one spell with the Amulet of Saarthal (although I suppose I could have used a staff if I had one), but I don't remember using any other spells in this quest line to become archmage. I can certainly say I became archmage with crude novice magic skills and nearly zip magicka.

 

Just as a curious question, is it even possible to play Skyrim as a pure mage without having to rely on weapons? I've tried it a couple of times, but I always quickly reverted back to a bow given how quickly my magicka depleted without doing much damage.

I have tried a couple of times and found it is next to impossible to be a 'pure' mage. There are just too many times when you must resort to mundane weapons to survive certain encounters.



#29 TechAngel85

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:14 PM

Yes, you can. Open console. Type in "tgm" and hit enter. Close console and game on!

#30 cdcooley

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:43 PM

In Nord culture magic is associated with elves, making it evil and unworthy for a true Nord. I guess the developers were a little too focused on the Nord mindset this time around.

The one spell you absolutely must cast is "Lesser Ward" during Tolfdir's little lesson. Technically whatever entry spell you use for Faralda can be used in Saarthal (but I had forgotten about getting through that wall). You also need fire and frost magic to adjust the focusing crystal and to open two doors in Labyrinthian. The spells are all low level and the spell tomes needed to learn them are right there in the dungeons. In fact the highest level spell you need is the one you use to impress Faralda.

The default game assumes you'll make heavy use of conjuration. And if you want to use destruction you'll need enchanting. That stun-lock effect you get from simply dual-casting a firebolt makes it your most powerful attack.

Personally I use a slightly customized version of Balanced Magic to make playing a mage reasonable and this mod to make joining the college tolerable.

Edited by cdcooley, 22 March 2016 - 10:43 PM.

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