Posted 31 July 2015 - 02:35 PM
So, after reading/watching tutorials for TES5Edit and using it to clean my main .esm files, I got the impression that I should use it to clean pretty much everything except skyrim.esm, the unofficial patches and a very small number of mods that contain intentional dirty edits.
I'm wondering if there's a comprehensive list of things I should definitely NOT clean (in order to avoid breaking them or creating conflicts where there would be none, etc.), or if that list is so small that it shouldn't be a problem?
I've read through several places/guides already, like here https://www.creation...at_Not_to_Clean
but the number of things really does seem quite small.
Also - I understand that it's usually very important to clean mods in order to avoid conflicts and potential in-game wonkiness/CTDs, but although I just started attempting to mod Skyrim for basic stability/bug-fixes, I did end up with a bunch of stuff in my Mod Organizer folder that I'm not sure should be cleaned or not. There's an SKSE-Scripts mod, as well as PapyrusUtil, Distant Decal Fix and Stable uGridsToLoad in MO so far, and I don't know if they require cleaning. *the mods in the screenshot haven't really been organized yet, as I'm still in the process of installing new ones and figuring out what to clean or not.
Apologies if this was explained elsewhere and I missed it >_< I just want to make sure I don't break something on my first attempt, before continuing. :)
Edited by Naoko, 31 July 2015 - 02:37 PM.
Posted 31 July 2015 - 02:51 PM Best Answer
LOOT tells you what to clean. Also, only mods that have plugins are cleanable. Everything else can't be cleaned.
Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:10 PM
Honestly, I'm yet to see any plugin in Skyrim that have intentional ITM records. And I mean real purpose ones from technical point of view, not because mod authors say so. They usually don't have any idea about this and just slap "do not clean" label. Even then almost any ITM record can be altered like EditorID field for example to mask from cleaning and stop confusing users, without any affects on the actual gameplay.
For me "do not clean" words in the description is the first warning that this author's modding expertise and knowledge are questionable, and his/her plugins better to be checked manually for other possible oddities. The second, and final warning is "load last" words. When both are present, that pretty much tells me to avoid any mods from this author. Applies to all games starting from Oblivion.
Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:42 PM
Only real reason to have ITM if it's to purposely overriding an other mod not referenced as a master to prevent one of its change to be applied, but as stated by zilav, there is no such mod publicly available out there...
I believe the "Do not remove ITM" mention in mods such as GDO is a warning for xEdit new enthusiast users, to avoid having them trying to remove ITM-looking groups manually. The automated cleaning function "Remove Identical To Masters records" take care of everything and is safe to use.
Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:34 PM
I am not sure wheter I am at the right topic, or not. :/ But found this one suitable.
I have some mods with cleanable ITMs, but I am not sure should I clean them, or shouldn't. Tried to ask mod authors, but lots of topic are inactive or mod authors also didn't know the exact answer. (Just, to be safe and make backup, etc...)
These mods are:
1.) The Oblivion Realms Serie - Morthal Pain
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 13367, Removed Records: 8
2.) Relighting Skyrim-No JIT (Legendary) Ext. + Int.
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 17182, Removed Records: 4
3.) Helgen Reborn
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 27251, Removed Records: 7
4.) Custom Family Home (Optional Additional Familiy Room)
Custom Family Home.esp
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 162, Removed Records: 8
These are which ones LOOT does not sign as "faulty" plugins, but they have ITMs.
Other mods, which were signed by LOOT I have cleaned.
I need some infos.
Ps: "The automated cleaning function "Remove Identical To Masters records" take care of everything and is safe to use."
I've read that one. :)
Hunterborn also has ITMs, but according to the mod author do not clean those ITM records, because they a quest line.
Do not clean them. ITM's are not always dirty.
Cleaning them will break the Strange Claw questline.
Edited by kranazoli, 16 September 2015 - 11:41 PM.
Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:30 AM
Intentional ITM records work only for mods that load after the conflicting ones, not before, and even then it will interfere with them by having that forced identical records. Any so called "intentional" ITM records should be cleaned anyway and conflicts must be resolved with a proper load order, a compatibiity patch, or not using conflicting mods at all if nothing else works. ITMs won't cure conflicts and make mods play nice together if they conflict on critical data no matter how many ITM records a mod author is trying to leave in his/her plugin to preserve vanilla records.
Posted 17 September 2015 - 06:19 AM
Okay, you are zilav and I am who I am.
I am sure you can solve any kind of issue with your knowledge, but I am just a player. Two mod authors said that, no three of them they have no idea what will happen if I clean they mods. They said, they are working fine with those ITMs records, as well. But as you read the mod author of Hunterborn mod said do not clean Hunterborn.
If I am not mistaken there are others: Guard Dialog Overhaul, and one more... Honestly I do not really understand why I can't make for instance some kind of white list via LOOT. Mods I do not want to clean, but I do not want to se the annoying warning always.
I am sure this conflict could be solveable by a proper patch if anything has gone wrong way, but I am still hesitate what would be the good choice.
I know, if I clean for instance Hunterborn and it is true that cleaning that mod break the mentioned quest line, I don't have the knowledge to solve that issue, and mod authors mostly retired. They are passive, etc...
Helgen Reborn which is also has ITM records:
"Not necessary because it's been cleaned record by record. The first set are not errors but simply warmings and are showing up because of how the aliases work in those packages. The so called ITM's are in a completely custom worldspace and it's beyond me how a custom worldspace can show ITM records."
I have fixed these issues:
[00:00] Checking for Errors in  Helgen Reborn.esp
[00:04] BalokGuardsRadiant05ToKorst [PACK:020DEC04]
[00:04] PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant05 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:02023591]">
[00:04] BalokGuardsRadiant04ToKorst [PACK:020DEC03]
[00:04] PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant04 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:02023590]">
[00:04] BalokGuardsHerdRadiant03ToKorst [PACK:020DEC02]
[00:04] PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant03 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:0202358F]">
[00:04] BalokGuardJotoRadiant02ToKorst [PACK:020DEC01]
[00:04] PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant02 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:0202358E]">
[00:04] All Done!
But still left these:
[Filtering done] Processed Records: 917126 Elapsed Time: 00:05
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:02110326] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at -3,-1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:02110324] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at -6,-1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:021102FB] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at -5,-1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:021102F9] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at -4,-1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0211031C] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at 49,-10)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0211031B] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at 3,-2)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0211031A] (in aaaWereBalokDungeonWorld "Staadomaar Temple" [WRLD:021102F4] at 2,-2)
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 27251, Removed Records: 7, Elapsed Time: 00:00
And Mike Hancho a very helpful author. But nothing more advice just keep backup if I clean those ITMs records.
Edited by kranazoli, 17 September 2015 - 06:28 AM.
Posted 17 September 2015 - 04:33 PM
Injected records can show up as ITMs. Cleaning these won't always cause issues, particularly if you are following good practice and make no changes to your load order once you have cleaned the mods. However, removing those records from their files, or any other files built to be compatible with them, could create trouble if you then add or remove files from your load order, or create a new profile using some of the same plugins. If you do everything correctly, making sure to load and clean each mod one at a time, then I still don't think you'll have any problems, but there is no reason to remove those records, and it's much safer to leave them there. That is why I recommend that people do not clean my mods. Guard Dialogue Overhaul also uses injected records, so the warning to not clean that mod may be for the same reason (I haven't looked into this personally, so I'm not certain about GDO's reasons).
I think the general statement that using "Remove Identical To Masters records" is safe in every situation and for every mod, even against the recommendations of the mod author, is a dangerous thing to say. No mod user should be blindly cleaning mods without any thought or consideration for the records they are removing. As someone who has had to deal with the repercussions of people mis-cleaning my mods, I find this assumption and advice really aggravating.
Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:40 PM
What Krypt just said. As a general rule, I only clean files called out for it by LOOT. There is a mod in the STEP lineup, as mentioned earlier (GDO) where the ITMs are, indeed, intentional and required for proper operation. So yeah... just go with the LOOT advice, unless it breaks the load, then revert. :)
Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:56 PM
Ok! Thank you all of your support. I have cleaned every mods which required by LOOT.
Only two exceptions:
I also wrote at the mod topic, why do not sign towards LOOT Team that handle Hunterborn like GDO, because if it's still true that harmful to clean it, lots of fellows will clean because LOOT said that.
- Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp
Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp
Contains 3 ITM records. Clean with TES5Edit.
I just can't able to clean it. It looks clean, but LOOT says it should be clean.
Don't you guys know, why can't we add a mod as a custom exception or whitelist via LOOT. Which is okay dirty, understood but please do not bother me the annoying cleaning that mod warnings?
Posted 17 September 2015 - 06:07 PM
What is an injected record?
Record with modified formID so it begin with 01 instead of the plugin's index. It allow multiple mods to share the same record as if it was in Update.esm, thus enabling them to work within some kind of framework (both plugins can reference the same injected record without having a common master).
(I really need to go back to finishing this xEdit guide...)
As for GDO : Yeah, you should definitely not clean it, as their is nothing to clean anyway. The LOOT warning is an artifact from older versions where GDO was relying on SPIKE.esm
Edited by Kesta, 17 September 2015 - 06:08 PM.
Posted 17 September 2015 - 11:38 PM
Okay, after that discussion, how what is your opinion about Hunterborn?
unuroboros 78 kudos 1338 posts
"Do not clean them. ITM's are not always dirty.
Cleaning them will break the Strange Claw questline."
Posted 18 September 2015 - 02:38 AM
xEdit should not clean injected records having changed data, please provide test plugin to replicate this. Such bugs should be fixed if they are really present.
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