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Disappointing Frame Rates (FPS)

fps performance load order enb

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#61 Hackfield

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 10:16 AM

None and I would normally recommend Nvidia's. I said to use ENB limiter because Winflakes said the limiter wasn't an option when looking in Inspector.

Oh, I've missed that part. Thanks, I was worried that nvidia's fps limiter could conflict with enb or something like that.

 

BTW, Inspector recommends setting it at 58fps (because of the input lag), is this ok? Did you find any problems setting the limit at 60fps?


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#62 TechAngel85

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 10:18 AM

I don't use either of the limiters so I wouldn't know. :^_^:



#63 z929669

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 11:20 AM

Vsyc will cause the FPS to drop to around 40-50 FPS (with tri-buffering capability, which modern cards have). This is normal and expected. you will see 60 FPS with vsync only when frames are delivered at or above the same rate as your monitor refresh rate (60 Hz). If slower, then you will get approx 2/3 (of monitor refresh rate) frames (with tri-buffering) or even down to 1/2 in particularly demanding areas.

 

This is all normal and I do not advise turning off vsync (as I have said endlessly). vsync ensures smooth GFX operation and optimal experience. Any FPS above 30 is totally fine and playable and beats the glitching you will notice without vsync, particularly in interiors. Avoid FPS limiters of any kind and use vsync ... that's why we have instructed that it be enabled ;)



#64 TirigonX

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:28 PM

I'd love to use Vsync but if I do and drop down to around 40 fps the game gets very laggy. It's like the tiniest possible micro stuttering and is very annoying. And with my mod setup I'm not able to play at constant 60 fps even without ENB. 

That's why I prefer a fps limiter as the game stays smooth even at 40 fps. 


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#65 TechAngel85

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:30 PM

Vsyc will cause the FPS to drop to around 40-50 FPS (with tri-buffering capability, which modern cards have). This is normal and expected. you will see 60 FPS with vsync only when frames are delivered at or above the same rate as your monitor refresh rate (60 Hz). If slower, then you will get approx 2/3 (of monitor refresh rate) frames (with tri-buffering) or even down to 1/2 in particularly demanding areas.

 

This is all normal and I do not advise turning off vsync (as I have said endlessly). vsync ensures smooth GFX operation and optimal experience. Any FPS above 30 is totally fine and playable and beats the glitching you will notice without vsync, particularly in interiors. Avoid FPS limiters of any kind and use vsync ... that's why we have instructed that it be enabled ;)

Normally, that would be good advice, but that often doesn't work with newer 120/144Hz monitors as is evident in this case. There is no fallback (that I've ever seen) by limiting the framerate rather than using vsync in Skyrim. Triple buffering should remain on as long as there isn't any input lag. I generally like "blanket" solutions that work for all users, however, with the large varying degree of changes from system to system I simply don't think this is one of those cases. Especially when you consider the two completely different pieces of hardware involved (AMD vs Nvidia). We know just how differently these two can work just by looking at ENB.

 

Vsync synchronizes the frame rate of the game with the monitor refresh rate. That's it's most basic function. If the monitor's refresh rate is higher than 60Hz (Skyrim's limit before issues happen), then you often get undesired results when you should be getting FPS equal to 2/3 or 1/2 the refresh rate; 80 or 60FPS, respectively. This typically works flawlessly on newer games, however, Skyrim isn't new and wasn't built for such technology because it didn't exist in the mainstream when Skyrim was being designed and released. The result is that we often see what was happening here. Using a limiter is a good alternative that has no side effects that I've never seen or been told about by other users.

 

This is just another workaround for newer tech on Skyrim's old and clunky engine. It's not uncommon if you simply search it on Google.

 

Also, your 30FPS comment is a matter of opinion and is subjective to the individual user. I know when Skyrim drops to those levels I most definitely can notice the gameplay is not as smooth nor fluid as it is at 45FPS+. 45-60FPS, imo, is the sweet spot for Skyrim. This is, of course, subjective as well. :^_^:



#66 z929669

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 11:28 AM

Fair enough. Whatever works ... I have not ever used a monitor with a refresh rate above 75 Hz; although, I don't see how that precludes the use of vsync. At these higher refresh rates (e.g., 120 Hz), vsync won't cut FPS below 60 FPS on a decent system.
​
​It would be nice if one of our staff has such a monitor so that we can test this theory.

​

 

​



#67 TechAngel85

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 03:33 PM

Not so much theory because that is how basic vsync works (this doesn't account for the various vsync options available because I don't know if they'll work or not, but rather standard vsync only) If vsync can't match the frame rate to the monitor's refresh rate, it'll cut the frame rate to the next available setting. It's is typically 2/3 or 1/2 of the monitor's refresh rate. In this case, since 2/3 would still be too high, it should have cut it to 1/2 which would have been 60FPS. I'm unsure if it would have cut it down further due to the game being modded, which would have been 40FPS and closer to what the user was experiencing; however, using my own system and other user's reported experiences as a reference, that's not how vsync should be working with Skyrim.

I've only ever ran into this issue with users who have 120/144Hz monitors. Using a limiter has always been the way around the issue. So far no one has reported any problems and until they do, I have to assume this option is the best/correct one to take in such circumstances.

It would be nice to officially test it, though.

#68 Avarium

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 09:00 AM

specs:

 

Load order:

 
INI settings:
 
Skyrim.INI
 
SkyrimPrefs.INI

 

Plugins

 

enblocal.ini

 

I am having particular issues when looking at towns in the distant like Falkreath and in some other places like Riverwood where I dip to about 40-45 fps my gpu rarely goes above 70% usage maybe 80% at times in some woodland areas i dip to 30 fps for a second before it jumps back up. I just figure i should be able to keep closer to 60 fps with my rig. Might it be an error in my inis or load order? (Disabling my enb does nothing for my framerate)

 

 

 


Edited by Avarium, 27 October 2015 - 09:02 AM.

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#69 z929669

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 10:54 AM

We have recently had three topics created dealing with this issue. I have merged the three and would ask that people search before creating new and redundant topics.

thanks

 

@ Avarium

Please read through this thread ;)



#70 Avarium

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 01:25 PM

think i managed to crank out a few more frames with some solutions here, cranking down my shadowres to 4000 from 8000 and turning off all vsyncs and just using frame limiter (i am using a 120HZ screen) But still getting 30 fps when im looking directly at Falkreath not the forest just the town itself. In the surrounding forests i am actually getting 60 fps


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#71 Avarium

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 01:46 PM

well i be damned i seem to have found my problem. changed fShadowDistance=8000 to fShadowDistance=4000 and voila 20 more fps in falkreath and i dont notice the difference with dynamic dof on anyway lowest i got was 47 fps and that was fighting whole falkreath as a werewolf


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#72 z929669

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 02:24 PM

Glad this thread is useful.

 

Could you point to the posts in here that were most useful? I will compile and post as the best 'answer'



#73 soupdragon

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:53 PM

Re: stuttering:

 


Vsync synchronizes the frame rate of the game with the monitor refresh rate. That's it's most basic function.

Yes, as I understand it (and I'm not an expert) is that Vsync is enabled to prevent screen tearing which is where the monitor and game are out of sync. If the game runs at a steady 60fps then there are no problems. The trouble comes when and if it dips below that, in an attempt to keep the game and monitor in sync frames will be dropped periodically which results in a noticeable stuttering effect.

 

There are fps limiters such as this one which when used in combination with Vsync OFF seems to stop the stuttering by removing the fps cull. So even if the framerate dips considerably (as low as 21fps in parts in JK's Whiterun) the game remains smooth and stutter-free. The downside is obvious - by removing fps culling the game will go out of sync with the monitor and you will potentially get severe screen tearing in places.

 

So its a trade-off, loss of frames/stuttering vs screen tearing. It seems Bethesda went with the former as the least worst option. Now personally I have an adaptive sync monitor (Freesync) so tearing doesn't happen for me which in combination with the above fps limiter and Vsync off makes it the perfect solution for me, others will possibly experience different results.

 

Also, your 30FPS comment is a matter of opinion and is subjective to the individual user. I know when Skyrim drops to those levels I most definitely can notice the gameplay is not as smooth nor fluid as it is at 45FPS+. 45-60FPS, imo, is the sweet spot for Skyrim. This is, of course, subjective as well. :^_^:

As so often with modding my experience is different, at least with the above mentioned and greater than 30fps. Below that its not severe but there a slight.. flickering or something. Possibly because the eye can separate individual frames below 25fps I believe, above that persistence of vision in the retina means that they're merged into a single moving image as I understand it.


Edited by soupdragon, 05 November 2015 - 06:04 PM.

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#74 Yakuza

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 03:21 PM

hishutup, on 30 Sept 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:hishutup, on 30 Sept 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

I compared a few other systems after moving from two 6970 -> a single 970.
For someone that has a similar machine other than they had a weaker gpu and an Intel cpu, the person was able to get 60fps with a modded game where as I was only about to achieve 20 with only jk whiterun the sample was taken at whiterun.
My conclusion is that amd cpus are terrible. If I had the funds I would do an apples to apples comparison.

I hope this makes sense, I am on my phone and its not the best.

Skyrim is heavily CPU bound/is single-threaded. AMD processors aren't great per-core and Skyrim does not utilize multiple threads very well. Instead, you want very powerful cores along with, ideally on any system, a good (6GB+, faster the better) amount of system memory. The higher tiers of Intel have higher clock speeds but I am positive you can still play Skyrim with a Pentium G3220 dual-core and reap benefits over an AMD quad or six-core that has roughly an extra 500mhz and 4/6 total cores.

 

This is because Intel's latest architecture, apples-to-apples as you put it, versus AMD's Bulldozer+ architectures is roughly 35-55% faster. On a 4/6-core AMD FX-4300/6300, you have 2/3 physical cores to hose information through and 2/3 logical ones. But, since each are 35-55% slower than Intel's, you've basically got a $60 Intel-equivalent AMD processor.

 

Now that's not to say that AMD is bad. This means that for CPU-bound games and processes, Intel's bottom line is closer to AMD's bottom/middle, and the top-end of AMD is totally thrashed in terms of value (6/8 cores with heavy clock speeds that don't matter). But, it also means that Intel's i3 processors are only barely faster, if at all, than an AMD processor that's 15-40% cheaper. They are simply different tools for different jobs in the computing world that are akin to Swiss Army knives in terms of how broadly they can actually be used.


Edited by Yakuza, 06 November 2015 - 03:22 PM.

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#75 z929669

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 03:45 PM

Re: stuttering:

 

As so often with modding my experience is different, at least with the above mentioned and greater than 30fps. Below that its not severe but there a slight.. flickering or something. Possibly because the eye can separate individual frames below 25fps I believe, above that persistence of vision in the retina means that they're merged into a single moving image as I understand it.

Zactly (afterimage). This is what I have always maintained. Anyone that says they can percieve the diff between 30 FPS and 60 FPS are victims of placebo or are noticing some other issue aside from FPS (or they are referencing highly contrasting environments or using extremely sharp and aliased GFX). Neither the human eye nor brain can distinguish any individual frame at speeds of ~20 FPS or higher (but it depends on frame-frame differential ... you would notice a single 1/30 black frame amongst 29/30 white frames, fe.). Another way frames could be distinguished is if objects/scenes are moving very fast (this can happen occasionally when turning your char quickly in game, but you would need to really look for it to actually think you notice it). Realistically, 20-30 FPS might introduce some occasional ability to notice an individual frame or two here and there (i.e., stutter/flicker/whatever), but not so much over 30 FPS. But it has more to do with sharpness/blurriness and converting natural analog signals into artificial digital signals.

 

people will always argue for higher numbers though, regardless of the strength of the argument :/ If you want to increase smoothness of moving digital images, then you need to decrease contrast and brightness, and increase blur (ENB is the answer, believe it or not, even if it costs you 20 FPS in performance)





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