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Crash fixes by meh321

skyrim testing

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#16 darkside

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 07:38 PM

The memory fix is very interesting.


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#17 SoonerMagicEE

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 07:51 PM

Anyone have a direct link to the source code (the C version)? Sorry I don't have time to go searching through a bunch of forum posts but would like to run some checks over the weekend if I get the time.


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#18 GrantSP

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 08:05 PM

Anyone have a direct link to the source code (the C version)? Sorry I don't have time to go searching through a bunch of forum posts but would like to run some checks over the weekend if I get the time.

All his source code is on the Nexus page.



#19 c0c0c0

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 10:24 PM

All his source code is on the Nexus page.

That alone is pretty comforting.


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#20 c0c0c0

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 07:25 AM

Well, now it looks like meh321 & sheson have teamed up on a workaround to get his memory fix in play:  SKSE Plugin Preloader.  I think this is now officially a "thing".


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#21 darkside

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:08 AM

This is a great news. I wonder if sheson can comment on this memory fix compare to his memory fix via SKSE


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#22 Pretendeavor

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:10 AM

Interesting.. I completely removed the [Memory] section in SKSE.ini and could load my game without getting an ILS with UseOSAllocators=1 and SKSE Plugin Preloader. I played for about 20 minutes and went to a couple of crowded places and didn't crash. Normally I need to set DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB to ~1000 to avoid ILS and crashing.

 

Editing SKSE.ini isn't needed for this to work but I did it to convince myself :p

 

Edit: tried playing with ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=false just for the heck of it, but Skyrim crashes once its memory limit is reached.. as expected of course, but hey it was worth a try. The cool part was that Crash Fixes notified me of this when it crashed.

 

I also tried ExpandSystemMemoryX64=true and it didn't crash as it would combined with SKSE.ini's DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB>=768. I'm not exactly sure about the benefits of setting ExpandSystemMemoryX64 to true but so far it worked alongside UseOSAllocators=1. I just read a report on Reddit of someone saying ExpandSystemMemoryX64=true combined with this still causes crashes, which were fixed by setting it to false again.


Edited by Pretendeavor, 21 May 2016 - 12:10 PM.

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#23 TechAngel85

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:23 AM

Well, now it looks like meh321 & sheson have teamed up on a workaround to get his memory fix in play:  SKSE Plugin Preloader.  I think this is now officially a "thing".

I'm curious as to its benefits.



#24 sheson

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:44 AM

This is now a thing :)

 

My tests the past week have been very encouraging. Since I am somewhat more cautious in these matters, I still suggest to do some in-depth testing with quests and stuff. Somehow I am focused on LOD, ultra trees and meshes/textures where I went past the 1024 default heap.

 

I suggested the alternate loader mechanism so lots of people can test. Any serious problems should show quickly.

 

Anyone just doing normal game play should just wait, if SKSE memory patch works, there is no need to change anything anyhow.


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#25 darkside

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:49 AM

This is now a thing :)

 

My tests the past week have been very encouraging. Since I am somewhat more cautious in these matters, I still suggest to do some in-depth testing with quests and stuff. Somehow I am focused on LOD, ultra trees and meshes/textures where I went past the 1024 default heap.

 

I suggested the alternate loader mechanism so lots of people can test. Any serious problems should show quickly.

 

Anyone just doing normal game play should just wait, if SKSE memory patch works, there is no need to change anything anyhow.

Thank you very much for the info. Does this new memory allocation improve performance / cell loading over SKSE memory patch, at least in theory?


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#26 c0c0c0

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 12:11 PM

I'm curious as to its benefits.

As best I can tell, there are two things being offered here:  A host of minor CTD fixes that address unhandled errors one might encounter, and a memory fix.  The memory fix addresses the same issue that the old skse/MemBLocks fix addressed, but without the trade-offs.  You no longer have to set memory aside to handle block1 crashes.  That memory is automatically allocated when needed, but is still available for screen loads and the like when it's needed there.  Cost free crash prevention.  I can definitely see it in my transition screens.

 

Does this new memory allocation improve performance / cell loading over SKSE memory patch, at least in theory?

"Improve" may not be the word.  It addresses the same issue, but in a more dynamic manner.  


Edited by c0c0c0, 21 May 2016 - 12:13 PM.

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#27 TechAngel85

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 12:15 PM

I was speaking more to the pre-loading of the plugins. The mod page is a bit value as to any benefits and "whys". Why would one need it?

 

As for the memory fix, I'm not touching until I here some "vs" info between it Sheson's patch. If all is well, then this could potentially make it into the Fixes section of the STEP Guide.



#28 sheson

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 12:30 PM

Thank you very much for the info. Does this new memory allocation improve performance / cell loading over SKSE memory patch, at least in theory?

In theory it should be a tad better. I didn't notice any dramatic changes, either way - but my setup is light and efficient to begin with.

Regarding the crash fixes, I just don't seem to need them so far, because see above.


I was speaking more to the pre-loading of the plugins. The mod page is a bit value as to any benefits and "whys". Why would one need it?

 

As for the memory fix, I'm not touching until I here some "vs" info between it Sheson's patch. If all is well, then this could potentially make it into the Fixes section of the STEP Guide.

There is certainly no rush, since there exists a tried and tested method for normal modding :)

Pre-loading is only required by very specific things that have to happen before the game starts to do anything. Memory patching or ENBoost for example. Maybe some day someone else has a need and I am looking forward to what that might be.


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#29 TechAngel85

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 12:40 PM

In theory it should be a tad better. I didn't notice any dramatic changes, either way - but my setup is light and efficient to begin with.

Better? I have no more firstborns or pie to give... :ermm: 



#30 Thallassa

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 01:38 PM

Better!

I added crash fixes to my load order a few weeks ago to test the strings fix and have been testing the new v9/10 with the memory allocation change for about a week.

The preloading of the plugin is necessary for meh's memory allocation to supersede Skyrim's. I can confirm this memory allocation works very well.

I have a very heavy, somewhat poorly optimized modlist at the moment (and I've only been in testing, not really playing the game). So my load screens are usually a few minutes long and they tend to stop responding halfway through (although they still complete). With the memory allocation they're under a minute and don't freeze. (although there's been a few times when they reverted back to the usual, that is, long and freezing, even with meh's patch active, not sure what that's about).

 

I was staying under my current settings for skse memory patch (first block 768, I was hovering around 500), so it's not an issue of running out of memory, not exactly. I know some of the people talking on the crash fixes page were running out with first block 1024 (I really don't know how that's possible. What do they even have installed? :P ).

I also observe less stutter on cell transitions when it's active. Still get some especially when moving at high speed, but much, much less. (Which is surprising as I thought this would be graphical memory related, but I haven't touched enb memory allocation at all).

Overhaul skyrim uses more memory with it active (1.5-2GB). I haven't changed any of the settings in the ini but meh mentioned turning off a few settings could decrease memory useage. Not an issue really.
 

It seems to me that most people don't even need sheson's memory patch. You know how many people fail to get that thing working properly and don't even know it? *headdesks*. And for most of the rest of modders the default block 1 size of 512 is enough and they don't have issues. For the people with very heavy modlists, like mine, I think they'll see the advantage of meh's approach over sheson's.

 

My game doesn't really crash (it freezes, occasionally, with a meant time to happen of about six hours), so it's hard for me to say anything about the rest of crash fixes. My inclination is that some of it is like bandaids that are covering up underlying issues. I'm a firm believer that every crash has a solvable cause (I'm one of those people who didn't crash in all hundreds of hours of vanilla gameplay). So when the game crashes, that's my cue to go look for the underlying cause. On the other hand, some crashes are just... the engine farted... and there's no solution or any way to even repeat the crash so you can test fixes for it. That's the vast majority of what Crash Fixes solves and it could be beneficial. Also I've never seen one of these but I think, from the comments at least, crash fixes puts up a pop-up saying "I just prevented a crash and here's why!" so that would be enough for me to look for underlying issues if they exist.
 

Oh, and the strings fix. If I can actually play and not fear my saves getting over 65,540 strings (or whatever the number is).... that's awesome. I mean, I never actually play the game, and right now when I just start the game my strings sit around 50k so I'm not too worried about the limit... but... if there's a fix that means I have headroom to add more mods!

Slated for the next rewrite of /r/skyrimmods beginner's guide is to add crash fixes and mator smash in as basic things (this won't happen until crash fixes gets a few more months of testing and mator releases smash on a "full release" basis (i.e. he feels comfortable unleashing it to the world at large). I'm not totally sure I agree with this as those utilities aren't really needed for beginners.... on the other hand we now have some people who have been modding for two weeks and already have 500 mods installed, so maybe we should change the definition of what a beginner needs, again.


Edited by Thallassa, 21 May 2016 - 01:39 PM.

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